I’m a Baha’i (in good standing) who is nonetheless disillusioned with the current state of the Baha’i world community. My aim is not to persuade or convince anyone of any conclusion. I simply hope that by voicing these thoughts, I can come to grips with the spiritual challenges that I am wrestling with personally. This is a most selfish endeavor and you are free to disagree with me. In fact, I welcome differences of opinion, for without them, it would be difficult to arrive at the truth.
So first things first, what do I believe and what are my values?
First and foremost, I believe in God as the Creator, the Unknowable Essence, and the Architect of the universe; in Baha’u'llah, as God’s Manifestation for this age; in the legislative authority of the Universal House of Justice and in the institution of the Guardianship (last held by Shoghi Effendi).
Furthermore, I value unity in diversity, not conformity, nor uniformity. Sadly, in today’s Baha’i community anyone who voices an opinion that does not agree with that of the majority or the administration, is looked at suspiciously. Somehow, the mistaken idea that unity must equal conformity has gripped the Baha’i community and as a result, a sterile group think has replaced the vibrant, and dynamic exchange of clashing viewpoints.
I value decentralization, over centralization. Central planning and its proponents, assume that life is static, linear and mechanistic; that it can be categorized, numbered and therefore, understood and controlled. However, life is not like that. It is messy, chaotic and dynamic. Unfortunately, the now widely discarded 19th-century ideal of centralization permeates the Baha’i community. Nowhere is it better seen than in grandiose multi-year plans. These plans are largely ignored by the community because they are imposed top-down and therefore, fail to motivate individuals. Yet they keep coming. Another example of centralization in the current Baha’i community is the funneling of donations from localities to the World Centre where they are expended without any disclosure or explanation - in contrast these funds could be used at the level where they are generated to build better communities.
Related to the previous issue, I believe in the empowerment of the individual to take personal and independent initiative. There are uncountable potentialities within each and everyone of us. Baha’u'llah describes man as a mine rich in gems; the way to mine these riches is to empower the individual to go forward to do what their soul inspires them. Like a young child, they will stumble, and make mistakes, but that is the only way to grow and develop. Despite the mentions of this value in communiques from the UHJ, its opposite rules the community and impedes personal initiative. Most individual Baha’is are loath to start any service project or act on any idea, unless it is first reviewed and sanctioned by their LSA or NSA.
Among the spiritual instincts latent within everyone of us, the drive for knowledge, is perhaps the strongest. This is why I believe in scholarship and the unfettered investigation of truth. Sadly, many documents related to the Faith and its history as well as volumes and volumes of the Writings of Baha’u'llah and the Bab have not yet been translated or released publicly . Although translation of these documents may take time, there is no reason why scanned versions of them can not be made available to all through the internet. Why are we so behind the others in this regard? By controlling or limiting access to what is in essence, the heritage and right of humanity, not only is scholarship hamstrung, but all of mankind suffers.
Closely intertwined with the search for knowledge is the free expression of our perception of it. I believe that the practice of ‘review’ where the product of individual Baha’i’s talents and intelligence is filtered and in many instances censored, is in direct violation of justice. This temporary measure, enacted by Abdu’l-Baha as a way to protect the Faith in a time of confusion, has been extended to an age where information is readily available and its instantaneous exchange made possible by technology. The case for maintaining this anachronism is made by some that it serves to protect the Faith from misunderstandings by both Baha’is and non-Baha’is. This paternalistic attitude however, disregards the fact that both groups are perfectly able to shoulder their God given responsibility to investigate the truth. As well, the non-Baha’i world is also capable of distinguishing from the words and actions of individual Baha’is, imperfect as they may be, and the Baha’i Faith itself. They do this everyday with regards to other religions and their adherents.
Too much emphasis is place on quantification in the Baha’i community to the detriment of the qualitative aspects of the community, such as vibrancy, unity, diversity, happiness and maturity. A tremendous amount of energy within the Baha’i community is wasted to collect, analyse and disseminate a huge pile of numbers for: enrollments, travelling teachers, pioneers, Ruhi course participants, cluster numbers and levels, and figures for the various Baha’i funds. Yet, qualitative aspects not only matter more in the lives of individuals and communities alike, they are prerequisites for numerical growth and achievement.
I value the administration as a tool rather than as a substitute for the Faith. Unfortunately, it has substituted the mystical and spiritual life of communities with mundane, bureaucratic, paper-pushing. This may be a result of ignoring the repeated mentions and entreaties, in the Writings, to establish the institution of the Mashriqul’Adhkar in all localities.
Also troubling for me is the confusion surrounding the recognition of the station and authority of the twin institutions of the administrative order: the UHJ and the Guardianship. Too many Baha’is believe that the UHJ is “God on earth”, “God’s representative” or some other such nonsense. Usually, these same people also mistakenly believe that every word uttered by Shoghi Effendi and his secretaries is Baha’i law. This is perhaps one of the most damaging mistakes because it touches on so many aspects of our community. I believe deepening on the meaning and significance of infallibility - in the context of the language and culture that it was used - would go towards removing this confusion and its negative effects.
I believe in an open and transparent due process; secrecy and justice can not coexist side by side. This point has been demonstrated repeatedly through human history and needs no further arguments. I sincerely hope that the voices within the administration which advocate opacity (however it is excused) will remember that justice is the best beloved in His sight.
I am aware that such views and their open expression in a public forum, is not in keeping with current Baha’i culture. As Baha’is, we are asked to share our concerns, criticisms and feedback directly with the institutions of the Faith. Unfortunately, this does not seem to be working. It is a most human need to want to be heard and acknowledged. When Baha’is, like myself, do not feel that the institutions fulfill this need, they reluctantly seek other channels. This is not motivated by malice, but by extreme frustration and a hunger for justice.
Hi there,
I just found your blog through a reference on another website.
You’ve said some very interesting things here. I’d be really curious to know more about who you are and your history as a Baha’i — e.g. did you grow up in the Faith? do you live in a large community? what country are you in? That would give me a better idea of where you’re coming from on certain subjects.
For my part, I grew up as a Baha’i and in my late teens I really struggled with my own disillusionment in certain aspects of Baha’i culture (from my point of view). Essentially I needed to go on my own ‘independent investigation of truth’. I’m still on that quest, hope I never stop learning and discovering.
A couple of things have helped me along the way. One was reading a book by Justice St. Rain called “Falling Into Grace”. If you haven’t picked it up, I definitely recommend it; it’s really worth a read. The other thing that’s helped — believe it or not — is leaving my country to go pioneering. Being so far from home in a place with few Baha’is has shifted my focus to things like teaching, building, taking an active role in community development — a totally different ‘culture’ from that of my home community. Of course, that’s just my own experience (may not help others).
It would be great to talk to you more, especially about what you believe ‘infallibility’ really means. I’m also slightly curious about your comment which says:
“As Baha’is, we are asked to share our concerns, ciriticisms and feedback directly with the institutions of the Faith. Unfortunately, this does not seem to be working.”
Which institutions are you talking about there? How did you approach them?
Cheers and love,
V
http://www.livejournal.com/users/territory_gal
I have just been put onto your blog site and found it intelligently refreshing. I have been a Baha’i for many years, and am continually disillusioned with the same ol’ same ol’. Vibrancy , celebration, joy and true vision of service has gone . I am closer to God in a forest than ever within Bahai gatherings. In a world of huge inequities, alarming scientifically verified reports of predicted environmental collapse, the Baha’i administraition is like an ostrich whose long neck is stuck up the proverbial. Communities move to exclude and discriminate, and the healing message for humanity is being lost. Keep writing, and asking questions. I hang onto independent investigation of truth.
Thanks from a kiwi girl.
interesting commments. i agree with much of what you say, though i would argue that most of what is going on here is due to two factors:
one, we as individual baha’is are very inexperienced, and much more immeresed in our own cultures than we are in a baha’i culture–something that we are in the process of creating, actually. and i would guess that you are part of the western culture, maybe even north american, considering you have a blog (most likely, statistically). i think much of what you struggle with in the baha’i community are actually features of our dominant culture, not really features of a baha’i culture.
two: the institutions are still immature, and that includes all the institutions. we know that the uhj is infallible and other assemblies are not, even taking into account the immaturity of the institutions.
so this learning process is painful and often slow, but necessary. i would say voices like yours are needed in the community, questioning, struggling, challenging. i don’t know how engaged you are in your local community, but i would encourage you to stay involved in the process. my experience of the five year plan has been that if communities give themselves over willingly to the process–which sounds cold and mechanistic–there is actually a mystical power released. it seems to me that any lack of results during the five year plan are due to lack of willingness to participate. i’ve seen the love, joy, unity, and enthusiasm in several communities increase as a result of this plan.
finally, and please don’t take offense at this, something that has become clear to me in the recent past, mostly as a result of this plan, is that our grounding in the writings is not what it should be. i think we, particularly in the west, are in love with our own opinions (i’m as big a culprit as any). i say this not to put you down, but to simply say that the writings are the right place to find the answers you seek, as well as the most powerful thing to share with others. if you could base your arguments/concerns in the holy texts i think it would be a lot more meaningful and provide a more substantial basis for investigation. to me, this is perhaps the most important facet of the five year plan, when we are all learning and immersing ourselves in the same words of god, we have an unshakeable foundation for unity.
good luck with your struggles and search.
your baha’i brother.
forgot to add my link.
Hi,
Personally, I have found the Baha’i Wrintings so immense and sometimes overwhelming with beautiful wisdom, that I can’t hold it all in my head and process it. What has helped me to process Baha’u'llah’s Revelation is a talk be Adib Taherzadeh in 1984 to the Alaska Baha’i Community “Drawing Nigh to Baha’u'llah”. He touches on some of the questions and concerns you have raised.
Warmly,
Meg
look to the last Hidden word where we are told to live our lives by our calling. This is the golden key to everything. Focus on that. Gillian
Hello Everybody
I am afraid there is either two Ramiz Mahers or sombody is using my name to say something that is not my view at all about Bahai institutions in constant growth towards maturity.I (Ramiz Maher)live in Chile as a pioneer for the last 25 years and see our beloved faith in perfect and normal conditions of growth and well protected for error by the Universal House of Justice.
With loving greeting.
Ramiz Maher
Chile
Dear Ramiz,
where is this supposed impostor’s comments? I haven’t found it on the blog.
In any case, thanks for your alertness. No ABM for protection has a chance of sneaking up on you.
Hi there, I just stumbled upon your blog while surfing the net.
I am a baha’i from Iceland. I find what you write very interesting and I would like to congratulate you for your courage. I have been in correspondance with several people living in the States and many of them have expressed what you have said here. Being an individual within the community can be very difficult.
But I have to agree with V who posted the first comment on your blog. She recommended pioneering to other countries. The situation is not the same everywhere, fortunately. There are still young communities that have not taken this direction. They are in need of vibrant, diverse, happy and mature people.
I am very happy to say that the Five year plan which is about to end has been a big help in my community. We are working hard on developing an A-cluster.
I hope this will make at least some difference in your day,
take good care,
Hugrun.
Hi, I just wanted to add my website.
hmm…this does not seem to be working well…try to remove the / from the end of the url…then it should work…
Sorry
Hugrun, thanks for dropping by. I appreciate and agree with your sentiments… some countries are better than others.
However, many issues like the unenrollment of sincere Baha’is, the pugilistic attitude towards academics, and the lack of due process, are constant whereever you may be. And it is these that are causing real harm to the Baha’i world community.
No matter where you run to, you can not escape from them. Instead, as a Baha’i, I think it is our duty to confront these malevolent forces and to defeat them.
And btw, the corrected link to your MySpace site is here.
Salaam Alaikum Dear Friend:
As a Baha’i and a spiritual writer, may I commend to you my book, Master of the Jinn: A Sufi Novel, a mystical adventure tale on the Sufi path of Love. I think you will like it. It has been translated and published in Russia, and will, later this year inshallah, be translated and published in Indonesia, into Bahasa, the national language.
You can view the book and read an excerpt at http://www.masterofthejinn.com
In the Name of the Merciful, 10% of all profits go to charity.
Ya Haqq,
Irving
Thank you for this very interesting and informative site. As a non Bahai and student of your faith for the past 30 years I am very pleased to have come across your blog. I have grave concerns about the lack of freedom of thought in all fundamentalist organizations and I hope and pray that you and folks like you can have some influence against those who seek to impose orthodoxy above all else. Keep up your good work and I looking forward to more insight on yours blogs part.
Thank you again from a universalist follower of Jesus of Nazareth, good luck and God bless all humanity who seek after peace with tolerance and compassion.
Mark from Vallejo, CA
Hi,
As I chow down my pre-dawn oatmeal (Fast)I understand the angst that fuels this site. I do. Yet, and yet. As a Baha’i of 30+ years, I have truly seen it all. Hypocrisy, ignorance, abuse, ego-engineered attempts to rise up through an imagined hierarchy of Baha’i “celebrity.” I have seen Baha’is who attend every fireside, every Feast who then go home and flagrantly break some of the most cherished laws of this Dispensation.
All I can tell you is that I am front and center at Baha’i activities because of Baha’u'llah, who gave us the Center of the Covenant. Not because of the perfections of the Baha’is, not because of the developing Administrative Order.
As the Master taught, perfection is endless . . . this applies to the Baha’is more keenly than to any group I can think of. Even Shoghi Effendi said that the greatest challenge to the Bahs’is would be . . . the Baha’is. (And look what he had to put up with . . .)
I found my peace in the Kitab-i-Iqan which informs the reader (sorry, I am not one of those believers who can club you over the head with a quotation) that the transformative power of the Creative Word is such that the lowest, losingest people are always the ones who embrace the new, revealed religion. As such, they are transformed into renewed beings who embrace the great new truths of the age. This transformation is in itself, nothing less than a proof of God, according to Baha’u'llah.
No one has ever tried what we try.
Other than our imperfect but earnest attempts to understand the Writings and to actively employ them, we are just like everyone else, fragile, weak and prone to whiny complaints and power struggle.
That is until we remember Him, Then for a few fleeting moments we are what we are supposed to be. . . united Followers of the Light.
Everything else, in the face of that fleeting moment is inconsequential. Perhaps we can learn to stretch those rare moments into sustained enlightenment.
Baha’is will succeed because of Baha’u'llah, a Person who in 1848, in the town of Amal, went to settle strife aimed at the Babis . . .the authorities decided to punish them with bastinado, a brutal torture in which the soles of the feet are whipped to a bloody pulp. He would not consent to allowing the believers to suffer such abuse.
So He offered Himself to the authorities and volunteered to take the bastinado. The authorities obliged Him. All this, BEFORE the experience in the Siyah Chal.
Baha’u'llah is helping us to unlearn the things that hold the world back. Think about fewer and fewer childen starving in the world and carry on. Baha’u'llah did. ‘Abdul Baha did. So can you. The faster we get the job done, the quicker we get the world we want.
HAPPY FAST!!
Let me paraphrase a Shoghi Effendi quote.
The biggest test once someone is a Bahai, are other Bahai’s.
Very true.
I’m 21 years old, born and raised Bahai. However only until my 19th year, can i truly say I could identify myself as a true beleiver. My reputation among the Bahai’s has not been squeeky clean. However, it wasn’t until I was accepted to go on a Youth Year of Service to the Tongan islands that i found myself, was able to grow without the push from anyone else - and began to truly realise my place in this amazing thing we have - which we all take for granted.
Man, returning to Australia, I still struggle to remain awake at the Feasts, the boring same sh’t that revolves every 19 days - people so willing to make suggestions but hesitant to volunteer for action.
Mate - the point is, I understand your frustrations. Going overseas amazed me, opened my eyes, made me aware of other frustrations that exist in other cultures, but also the power of this Faith to unify this shrinking world. But what one Tongan, new Bahai, ex-alcoholic said to me put it all in perspective. I was shocked at the use of corporate punishment, even among new Bahai families (very common in the Islands). He told me something like this:
“The Faith here is like the sun rising. We can see the light, but the sun hasn’t risen yet. Its still dark, but soon the full light of day will be seen. We’re at our dawn.”
Makes perfect sense. We’re at an early, infant stage. Bahai’s are imperfect, yet we expect so much more from them. LSA’s are imperfect, yet we always feel we can do better. The Faith is new - let it develop. Don’t get pissed off at your kid who can’t run on word “go”. He’ll learn. Let him trip up a few times, hurt his knee etc. He’ll get it.
Sure, frustrations with the Faith are always gonna be there. Watch them now, see whats up, make changes when you’re in the position to in future.
The Faith has saved my life - where would i be without it, … not here
all the best buddy
rayan
If a person has nine good qualities and one bad, look at the good one.
…and even more difficult: if a person has nine bad qualities and one good, look at the good one. (it even feels good).
And be certain of that this is the time when light shall not be followed by darkness.
Encourage the good sides in all of us… many of us never experienced that while growing up.
I am so happy to be …
Hans from Sweden
Your blog is well written and of interest. I’m glad to have found it. I wonder how you can be a Bahai in good standing — it makes me chuckle to think of it!
I have believed for years that the writings of Bahaullah have been sanitized for western consumption. He wrote love poetry and was a Sufi with the religious excess (some for the good) that implies. If all His writings were made available most Bahais would not know what to make of them.
Finally I have decided that while He was a great spiritual teacher, His claims are far too extreme even in their sanitized form. Yes there is a new heaven and a new earth — but its because of mankind’s growth and development, not because Bahaullah made it so. Of course that’s my opinion. I have decided to put my faith in mankind and Nature. I’m just sorry its taken me so long to do it.
Dear friend:
If I may say something to you out of a brotherly/sisterly love; you may have a couple valid points here but the right way to express your frustrations should have been to auxiliary board members or directly to the Universal House of Justice and definitely NOT through this blog. The whole purpose of this wonderful cause is to create unity amongst Mankind and you must agree that starting rage, doubt and discontentment is not the way to deal with your frustrations. Obviously you see beauty in the Faith and that’s why you are sticking around in your membership as a Bahá’i but this membership comes with a responsibility and commitment to protect it’s main principle of unity. Please don’t take this as an insult but deepening more in the Faith will surly give you then answers you need in your quest. The Faith is perfect but us humans will always be imperfect and these imperfect actions done in the spirit of unity will correct themselves eventually. That doesn’t mean that you should stop thinking as an individual but rather channel your frustrations to the right people for an advice. I recommend reading the first section of the annual report by the NSA of the US, which deals with many of your questions. At the end; I lovingly urge you to change the name of your blog too as it expresses negativity and that is also not a Bahá’i teaching. All our actions as Bahá’is need to reflect the principles that we committed ourselves to accept. You sound very intelligent and I have high hopes that your sincere prayers for guidance and steadfastness will illumine your inner being and help you radiate the wonderful teachings of our dear Faith.
A
Ally,
thanks for your comments.
Just a couple?
But seriously, why exactly do you think what I’m doing is wrong?
And aren’t you assuming that I haven’t already followed your advice?
Finally, I’m curious. Which are the ‘valid points’ I make? and which are the nonvalid ones? And why?
Hi Ally,
You wrote to Baquia:
“I recommend reading the first section of the annual report by the NSA of the US, which deals with many of your questions.”
Baquia, of course, posted the entire first part HERE three weeks ago because it came to this Blog through the great unwashed of the rank and file if you would read this Blog a little more astutely.
The entire free and open world can ONLY READ IT HERE ON-LINE!
But it is no longer available to ANY rank and file Baha’i in the U.S. unless they somehow got it in the original mailing before it was officially deep sixed and completely repressed by the UHJ.
As far as I can tell the entire 15 page excellent and prescient report has been completely taken down from the US NSA web site unless you can find it and post a link here for the Baha’is of the world. I hope it is there but I could not find it.
Nor is it’s contents mentioned in any way in the latest “American Baha’i” just three weeks later!
A report written and printed at great TIME and EXPENSE to the American Baha’i community is now treated like it never existed. Now COMPLETELY erased from the official record in an Orwellian orgy of shocking top down mind control.
I have been a Baha’i for 36 years and I am fighting mad.
Your Counselors and Axillary Board members whatever medications they are on had better double them. Because at some public meeting some time I am going to be in the front row and they are going to get an ear full in public. Sometimes unity comes from guts. Sometimes unity comes from a fist to the jaw upon unjust neurotic punks. Not from spineless passivity.
Keep posting brother/sister Ally. We love you!
Best regards,
Craig
that’ s a valid point regarding the name of this blog…
after all the attribute of Creator is “Questions” not “rants”
nevertheless, wise and loving free expression that is free of ego is central to “consultation” and finding something that resembles truth, however relative that true might be etc
thanks
The only “final exchange” in an organics life Craig is death. In the meantime there is only life.
I left the BF voluntarily because to stay would only deteriorate all the good it did give me. Moving forward to studying the concepts of Transcendentalist.
Here’s a few pearls for you in a treasure chest beyond measure…
Thoreau:
“I am sorry to think that you do not get a man’s most effective criticism until you provoke him. Severe truth is expressed with some bitterness.”
“I know of no more encouraging fact than the unquestionable ability of man to elevate his life by conscious endeavor.”
“If I knew for a certainty that a man was coming to my house with the conscious design of doing me good, I should run for my life.”
“As for doing good; that is one of the professions which is full. Moreover I have tried it fairly and, strange as it may seem, am satisfied that it does not agree with my constitution.”
Baquia,
I do appreciate your thirst for truth, and I would be happy to discuss some points with you. Questionning is an attribute of God and a virute to be valued.
Many of the mishaps and flaws you point to seem valid to me, but at the same time I do believe that by looking at life “through a lens” you are missing much of the general picture.
In a garden you have flowers, small shoots, budding shrubs and fruits. By concentrating your attentention on the compost you are getting a distorted vision of the garden.
Unfortunately, my comments are being flagged, I am not sure whether it is for a technical reason or because of my opinions.
I would be happy to correspond with you heer or on a private basis if you are open to discussion.
Thanks for pointing this out. I just noticed that you were blacklisted for some strange reason by my spam filter. I’ve taken you off that and put you on the whitelist so hopefully everything will be as right as rain - as long as you write from the same IP address. Just to be clear, unlike some other Baha’i bloggers, I don’t censor comments that I may disagree with.
Cheers
Thanks Baquia for offering me the right to speak;
Going through the posts here, I notice one outstanding caracteristic: the highly intellectual and well read authors are speaking from the present view-point of an over developped country, wheras the UHJ is speaking from the view-point of all humanity, in the perspectives of what is happening to our planet and will be happening for the next 500,000 years.
Erudite authors are looking at life through a microscope, wheras the revelation of God and the UHJ are looking through a fisheye lens, with a satellite view of life on this planet.
We need our microscopes and critical thoughts for acting locally, but we also need the general view to think globally. Joel De Rosnay calls this the “macroscope”. i warmly recommend his book that has been translated into English
The Ruhi controverse is a typical example of our inability to adopt simultaneosly these complementary “analytic” and “synthetic” views. Intellectuals want to dissect the history of thhe Faith, the Supreme body is drawing our attention to the dire and urgent needs of humanity for now and the decades to come.
The bare-foot doctor experience of China is to me a good comparison; in a response for human ressource shortage, China formed in a shor time millions of peasants in the fundamental sciences of health. working together with other peasants in the fields, they saved millions of lives by building millions of latrines, providing clean water, vaccinating, diagnosing and treating the common disorders. China was highly commended by the WHO at the Alma Ata conference for inventing primary health care.
However, the doctors in the universities were wont to go out and help teach these bare-foot doctors more advanced medicine, and the bare-foot doctors ended up in saying that the scientific rich-man’s medicine in the universities was counter-revolutionnary and should be dismantled;
Finally, in time, the primary heath system having borne it’s fruits, the bare-foot doctors took exams and became real doctors or just medical assistants, moving to the “two legged” medicine, combining traditionnal and primary health care with scientific medicine.
Many of the apparent paradoxes in our Faith are due to a confusion between the teachings adressing the global vision and on their practical applications in a particular place at a particular time.
warmest
Farhan
Baquia wrote,
For this alone, your victory is assured. You will be rewarded a great many blessed eternities in the worlds to come for encouraging thought. Yours is a rare and dying breed of open-minded Bahá’ís. And verily, you are the Last of the Mohicans.
Thanks for the technical help, Baquia,
reading what you have to say, I would have been surprised and disappointed if you censured replies to your queries.
Farhan,
You say “the UHJ is speaking from the view-point of all humanity,”
ummm…so women don’t have a viewpoint, or are not a part of “humanity?” They are 9 men. They do not speak from the viewpoint of women.
Thanks,
Amanda
Amanda,
you write:
so women don’t have a viewpoint, or are not a part <of “humanity?” They are 9 men. They do not speak from the viewpoint of women.
Well this assumes that members elected on the UHj, on which was loaded a mandate they never volonteered for, go there to advance their own selfish interests and view-points according to national or racial origins and gender. This would not only suggest that they are deprived from Divine Guidance, but would be contrary to their explicit mandate which is being :
“the Trustees of God among His servants”. (Tab Baha’u’llah, p 26)
“…ensure the protection and safeguarding of men, women and children… the utmost regard for the interests of the people at all times and under all conditions…” (Tab Baha’u’llah, p 69)
“fix their gaze upon … the training of peoples, the upbuilding of nations… the protection of man and the safeguarding of his honour… (Tab Baha’u’llah, p 125)
“that they may enforce them according to the exigencies of the time and the dictates of wisdom. (Tab Baha’u’llah, p 134)
The very fact that you imply that women are “deprived” of this “highest privilege” is a violation of the very purpose of the Baha’i administrative service which is a load of servitude, with no privilege, power or advantage.
I believe that once we understand that service within the Baha’i administration for which we are not neither candidates nor volonteers but humble bearers, we will understand that it is a burden from which women have been exempted and not an honor from which they have been deprived.
I have no reason to believe that the rank of Mother Theresa is inferiour to that of the Pope. I would in fact believe the contrary.
If I were to cast a vote for the UHJ, I would be very embarassed to take into consideration whether the person I would like to vote for was or was not engaged in family duties.
Again, if you consider membership in the UHJ as a privilege and an opportunity to advance personal motives, then you objection would be very much valid.
warmest
Farhan
Now, Farhan, let’s be clear. You say, “Well this assumes that members elected on the UHj, on which was loaded a mandate they never volonteered for, go there to advance their own selfish interests and view-points according to national or racial origins and gender. This would not only suggest that they are deprived from Divine Guidance, but would be contrary to their explicit mandate which is being…”
NO, by saying they do not speak FROM THE VIEWPOINT OF WOMEN assumes that they are NOT WOMEN. Do you follow? To speak FROM someone’s VIEWPOINT means you ARE that someone. They are 9 MEN, who do not have ANY authority to speak FROM the viewpoint of WOMEN. Such an authority would come from BEING WOMEN, which they are clearly not.
As far as I am aware, they have never claimed to speak from the viewpoint of women. That is YOUR claim.
You also say, “The very fact that you imply that women are “deprived” of this “highest privilege” is a violation of the very purpose of the Baha’i administrative service which is a load of servitude, with no privilege, power or advantage.”
Nowhere did I say or imply that. That is entirely your creation.
Having an equal voice in government is not a priviledge, it is a right. I do not wish to be sheltered from the “burden” of self-determination, leadership, or responsibility. Your argument is almost verbatim what came out of the mouths of people who did not want to see women get the secular vote. It’s astonishing.
To accuse women who want to take full and equal responsibility for the well-being and leadership of the world of “personal motive” is perverse. Additionally, your argument that the maleness of your argument makes any sense is completely arbitrary and unfounded.
You also say, “If I were to cast a vote for the UHJ, I would be very embarassed to take into consideration whether the person I would like to vote for was or was not engaged in family duties.”
Farhan- I would be very embarassed for you as well. I AM very embarassed for you that you seem to imagine all women want children or that men do not have “family duties” equivalent to women. Is our place in the home, Farhan?
Your position is utterly sexist and 100% consistent with the Baha’i writings.
LoL, I don’t know about that… I just put myself in the other person’s place and can’t in good conscience simply erase their words because I disagree with them. It doesn’t seem to be what Abdu’l-Baha would have done.
Unfortunately, although I absolutely hate to erase comments, my hands are forced by those who are not here to contribute their thoughts but rather to disrupt the ongoing dialogue and/or pollute this blog with filth. As much as I hate it, I have to put on my janitor’s overalls and mop it up so others can have a nice place to meet.
Amanda wrote :
<by saying they do not speak FROM THE VIEWPOINT OF WOMEN assumes that they <are NOT WOMEN.
Amanda, I believe you are sexist ; you openly discriminate between the two sexes. I see in Genesis, God creating men as male and female beings ; contrary to you I do not see humanity in two separate categories of males and females ; in the spiritual realms we are one, even if in the biological and social realms we are different and yet complementary. You consider humanity with a huge fracture between men and women ;
This fracture has existed and should now be removed. I do not have my eyes fixed below people’s belts ; I see them as sexless angels, except when sexuality comes into teh picture.
<As far as I am aware, they have never claimed to speak from the viewpoint <of women. That is YOUR claim.
They claim to speak in the name of all humanity, whether male or female, black or white.
<Your position is utterly sexist and 100% consistent with the Baha’i <writings.
Well Amanda, I am happy to hear you say this ;
If my position was not 100% consistent with the Baha’i teachings, I would stop calling myself a Baha’i.
If I did not believe that the UHJ was divinely guided and the continued presence of God amongst us as promised in John’s Revelation chapter 21, I would change religions, and find one that would bring guidance and benefit to my spiritual life.
In any case I would not expect a religion which I believe is of God to follow my instructions. I adhere to a religion to derive guidance from it, not to establish myself as peers and equal to God and guide that religion towards my own concepts of life in this world.
Baquia wrote:
<As much as I hate it, I have to put on my janitor’s <overalls and mop it up so others can have a nice place to <meet.
Thanks Baquia, and at the same time, I expect you inform those who misbehave why their messages are erased, so that they can avoid misbehaving in the future
Amanda, you write:
<you seem to imagine all women want children or that men do <not have “family duties” equivalent to women. Is our <place in the home, Farhan?
No Amanda, i did not say that the women’s place was at home, however, I do say that men and women do not always have identical roles, but have complemantary roles in some specific circumstances and at some particular times in life, especially involving the spiritual education of children. I see family life with a “variable geometry” and not with rigidly set roles throughout our lives.
I developped this in detail in a publication in 1993, published under:
LA DIMENSION SPIRITUELLE DES RELATIONS MERE-ENFANT
par le Dr Farhan YAZDANI
(Tiré à part des actes de la VIIième journée d’étude
de l’Association Médicale Baha’ie, Strasbourg, 1993
Relation mère-enfant, p 77 reproduite avec l’aimable permission © Harmattan 1999, ISBN 2-7384-7884-0)
More recent comments on the subject are available at:
DE LA PREVENTION,
VERS L’ERADICATION DE LA VIOLENCE FAMILIALE par Farhan Yazdani …
violencesconjugalesyazdaniajpf.blogspot.com/
violencesconjugalesdebatajpf.blogspot.com/ 2007/06/evolution-de-la-
socit.html
I do not believe that an attentive and devoted mother has a lower spiritual rank that a member of the UHJ, but many (excluding yourself apparently) seem to believe so.
I too see humans as sexless angels, except when sexuality comes into the picture, at which point I do not see humans as sexless angels, except when I see them as sexless angels.
What would God think? Let’s ask God and see what God has to say on the subject:
God, what do You think?
God? Hello? God? Hello? God? HELLO? Could you speak up please? Hello?
Hmmm … That’s funny. God isn’t much of a talker. His promo people seem to do all the talking for Him …
Andrew writes:
I too see humans as sexless angels, except when sexuality comes into the picture,
Andrew, thanks for the humour.
My point is that sexuality and gender differences is only part of our human functions and relations, albeit an important one.
Beyond some minor physical differences, we do not need to continually stress on gender differences. We can consider each other as comrades and fellow humans, without constantly bringing up gender differences. We sometimes do as a an attempt to compensation for the centuries of discrimination in a world that was, and still is, however decreasingly, based of physical force.
As spiritual values become prevalent, women might well do better than men.
Well, seeing humans as “sexless angels” might have been good advice for Governor Spitzer. Maybe even better advice for the parents of some of the people posting on this blog.
Andrew:
“God? Hello? God? Hello? God? HELLO? Could you speak up please? Hello?
Hmmm … That’s funny. God isn’t much of a talker. His promo people seem to do all the talking for Him …”
I woke up to a really heart warming chuckle on that one.
Thanks for the uplift!
btw- I am going to deepen on Judaism, where “God” first appeared as “God”. For some reason I have skipped this study being born a Christian and moving to Bahai. Time for me to get back to the basics.
Reaching for the stars… and in the world of angels, I am known as Robin
Farhan, this cracked me up:
“Amanda, I believe you are sexist ; you openly discriminate between the two sexes.”
So you view ANY attention to gender as sexist? Are midwives sexist? Gynecologists?
“This fracture has existed and should now be removed.”
That’s all I’m saying, sir. Equal rights.
“Discrimination” is an UNFAIR distinction that is not based on MERIT (like excluding women from the House of Justice.) Not POINTING out that women are NOT on the UHJ.
HEY!!!! It just occured to me, that if you are “gender-blind,” and see all human beings as “sexless angels,” you must be FOR same sex marriage- right? Right??!?
Amanda
Farhan seems to be the micro example of most men, Bahà’í or not. And the UJH just make the discrimination easier by putting a flowery labeling in a “blessing” to women not to “have” to serve.
Being a CEO of a multimillion dollar organization, I wonder what would happen to my organization without my compassion for justice and fairness or my strong leadership through the storms. Frankly, from what I have witnesses, men are scared sh-tless by women who know their place, which is anywhere.
After all, religious conservatives have been mocking and spreading lies about homosexuals and liberals for centuries: now it’s our turn to mock them! Enjoy!
Farhan-
“I do not believe that an attentive and devoted mother has a lower spiritual rank that a member of the UHJ, but many (excluding yourself apparently) seem to believe so.”
FYI- it is men like you who would keep them thinking they are of a “lower spiritual rank” destroying their souls and keeping them in the kitchen. All this does is perpetuate ignorance! With it in your hands and that of the AO, you will keep them there are long as you can. Exclude me too and my sons. -
Warning, you can not keep me quiet. You can not take away my voice. This birds sings - Equal Opportunity. This statement does not make me a feminist, it makes me smart, fair and highly successful. I hire based on skills not gender, time the AO catches up!
Shame on you for your disrespect to women, who without, you could not have been born, and no one would have been there to wipe your butt when you soiled yourself. Maybe you think that all we are good for is just that – wiping butts. NOT! I can wipe a butt and negotiate a contract. Look out buddy, more and more women are waking up knowing in their heart they are equal and because of that the world will change to a more compassionate atmosphere.
Bird, I dont know how you read my post, but your comments imply that I consider women of a lower rank, which is not what I said