Allah or God?

This news report from the BBC peaked my curiosity (below). It is about a church in Kuala Lampur that uses the word ‘Allah’ to refer to God in their services. The Muslims are not happy about that and are saying that this will cause ‘confusion’. Click play to watch the clip:

This reminded me of the continuing court case between the NSA of the Baha’is of the United States and the Orthodox Baha’i group in the US. The NSA lost the case last year and has appealed the case – everyone is waiting for a decision any minute (day, month, etc.) now.

Similar to the Muslim Malaysians, the NSA is asking the Court to enforce a previous ruling which gave them the sole and exclusive rights of the word “Baha’i”.

I’m not making this up. How I wish I was!

They’ve gone after them in fine litigious style befitting Scientology. The NSA’s aim is to prevent a small group of people from using the word Baha’i – claiming in the presented evidence before the court that it would ‘confuse’ people.

The NSA has already lost once. And once the appeals court ruling arrives, they may very well lose again. But I’m not referring to an unfavorable verdict. Although by any sane stretch of the imagination, one wonders how in the world the term “Baha’i” can be the sole exclusive property and trademark of an organization when other words like Christian, Muslim, Jew, etc. are in the public domain.

No, what I mean is that the Baha’is of the US will lose the PR battle – as they already have. Take a look at this article from the Chicago Tribune (thanks to Baha’is Online for highlighting this article).

“The word Baha’i carries with it implications for a certain sets of beliefs — and we have to protect that,” said Robert Stockman

Can you imagine for one second the Roman Catholic Church suing the Protestant Church over their concern that they had the monopoly on what the word “Christian” means, and that this means it has to be protected?

For some strange reason the Office of Public Information from Wilmette refused to talk to the newspaper about this article. Instead they turned to Robert Stockman, a US Baha’i. For all his best intentions, Stockman comes across as loonie as a Scientologist. I can’t imagine he would have gone on the record unless he was given the approval from the NSA to talk to the press. Which makes his ramblings all the more odd.

If you’d like to know what this is all about, read this original post with detailed background information about the Orthodox Baha’i court case.

  • Matt

    Wow. I think it's cool that some Christians are using the word "Allah" for God. With all of these American evangelical extremists running around saying, "Allah is not the God of the Bible", or "Allah is not the Christian God", knowing of a Christian church anywhere in the world praying to "Allah" would be of great serve in debunking that myth. But some people are just terrible at PR, and they want to "protect" the name "Allah" just like the NSA wants to "protect" the name "Bahai." Geez louise….

  • Matt

    Wow. I think it's cool that some Christians are using the word "Allah" for God. With all of these American evangelical extremists running around saying, "Allah is not the God of the Bible", or "Allah is not the Christian God", knowing of a Christian church anywhere in the world praying to "Allah" would be of great serve in debunking that myth. But some people are just terrible at PR, and they want to "protect" the name "Allah" just like the NSA wants to "protect" the name "Bahai." Geez louise….

  • Craig Parke

    One of the most depressing things about the present time is that so called "Jews", "Christians", "Muslims", and "Baha'is" don't seem to know jack f****** squat about the historical origins of the ideas in their "religions". For one thing, the MOTHER of ALL the RELIGIONS of the Middle East is Zoroastrianism. This was not fully understood until beginning in the 1850's. But the scholarship is all there now for anyone to study. Both Judaism and later Christianity were greatly influenced by these ideas that came into the Jewish system of religious thought during the Babylonian captivity.

    The concepts of Heaven, Hell, Angels, Demons, Satan, World Ages, Dispensations, Last Judgments, the Sheep and the Goats, Armageddon, World Messiahs, World Saviors, End of the Age, End Times, World Time Cycles, the Apocalypse, and Sons of Darkness vs Sons of Light are all Zoroastrian just to name a few biggies. None of these ideas and Cosmological concepts are original AT ALL to the religions that have copied them and used them. Zero. Nada. Zippo. Why aren't people in these "religions" even knowledgeable about the history of the ideas and concepts in their own hand-me-down system of copy cat Middle Eastern thought?

    In addition to this astounding fact, any fifteen minutes of language research would show that the Aramaic word Jesus used that is translated as "God the Father" was "ALLA-HA"! Duh! Why don't so called "Christians" know this? Just amazing!

    It appears the people on this planet following the strain of the Abrahamic religions are dumber than a bag of depleted uranium hammers. These are completely spiritually illiterate, clueless, people who know nothing and understand nothing. And, consequently, this is where it has all lead:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq_ko5jVMBo

    For me it is the end of the road with the Abrahamic religions. I tried. But I have had enough. It is all insanity.

    I am going back to Buddhism. But I am still keeping dome of my Sufi books and, of course, Rumi.

  • Craig Parke

    One of the most depressing things about the present time is that so called "Jews", "Christians", "Muslims", and "Baha'is" don't seem to know jack f****** squat about the historical origins of the ideas in their "religions". For one thing, the MOTHER of ALL the RELIGIONS of the Middle East is Zoroastrianism. This was not fully understood until beginning in the 1850's. But the scholarship is all there now for anyone to study. Both Judaism and later Christianity were greatly influenced by these ideas that came into the Jewish system of religious thought during the Babylonian captivity.

    The concepts of Heaven, Hell, Angels, Demons, Satan, World Ages, Dispensations, Last Judgments, the Sheep and the Goats, Armageddon, World Messiahs, World Saviors, End of the Age, End Times, World Time Cycles, the Apocalypse, and Sons of Darkness vs Sons of Light are all Zoroastrian just to name a few biggies. None of these ideas and Cosmological concepts are original AT ALL to the religions that have copied them and used them. Zero. Nada. Zippo. Why aren't people in these "religions" even knowledgeable about the history of the ideas and concepts in their own hand-me-down system of copy cat Middle Eastern thought?

    In addition to this astounding fact, any fifteen minutes of language research would show that the Aramaic word Jesus used that is translated as "God the Father" was "ALLA-HA"! Duh! Why don't so called "Christians" know this? Just amazing!

    It appears the people on this planet following the strain of the Abrahamic religions are dumber than a bag of depleted uranium hammers. These are completely spiritually illiterate, clueless, people who know nothing and understand nothing. And, consequently, this is where it has all lead:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq_ko5jVMBo

    For me it is the end of the road with the Abrahamic religions. I tried. But I have had enough. It is all insanity.

    I am going back to Buddhism. But I am still keeping dome of my Sufi books and, of course, Rumi.

  • farhan

    Craig wrote: any fifteen minutes of language research would show that the Aramaic word Jesus used that is translated as "God the Father" was "ALLA-HA"! Duh! Why don't so called "Christians" know this? Just amazing!

    Good point, Craig. The word Hebrew word “Elohim” is also related to the word Allah and the Moslems also use the word “Amen”. Very obviously Muhammad guided the Arab tribes to Judeo-Christianity, even turning to Jerusalem in prayers in the early days.

    Unfortunately people are more eager to find what separates and differentiates us rather than what unites us. Look up this site and see how close we all are in our essential beliefs:
    http://www.beliefnet.com/Entertainment/Quizzes/Be

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/farhan farhan

    Craig wrote: any fifteen minutes of language research would show that the Aramaic word Jesus used that is translated as "God the Father" was "ALLA-HA"! Duh! Why don't so called "Christians" know this? Just amazing!

    Good point, Craig. The word Hebrew word “Elohim” is also related to the word Allah and the Moslems also use the word “Amen”. Very obviously Muhammad guided the Arab tribes to Judeo-Christianity, even turning to Jerusalem in prayers in the early days.

    Unfortunately people are more eager to find what separates and differentiates us rather than what unites us. Look up this site and see how close we all are in our essential beliefs:
    http://www.beliefnet.com/Entertainment/Quizzes/Be

  • Matt

    The Qur'an even calls itself a guardian over the previous revelations, meaning that it aims to protect them, not insult and deride them. Muhammad (peace be upon him) also wanted the Jews of Medina to live by their own book, and the Qur'an asks a rhetorical question about some of the Jews of that city who were asking Muhammad to decide between them when they have their own book, the Torah, that provides them with their law.

    "But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) law before them?- therein is the (plain) command of Allah; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) People of Faith." (Qur'an 5:43, Yusuf Ali)

  • Matt

    The Qur'an even calls itself a guardian over the previous revelations, meaning that it aims to protect them, not insult and deride them. Muhammad (peace be upon him) also wanted the Jews of Medina to live by their own book, and the Qur'an asks a rhetorical question about some of the Jews of that city who were asking Muhammad to decide between them when they have their own book, the Torah, that provides them with their law.

    "But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) law before them?- therein is the (plain) command of Allah; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) People of Faith." (Qur'an 5:43, Yusuf Ali)

  • Grover

    Actually, its quite interesting how suspicious every seemingly innocuous activity is in the light of that religion's agenda to convert people. E.g. the Catholic church calling God Allah over in Malaysia (without a doubt to try and make Christianity more attractive to young Muslims that might not know better) or the Baha'i Faith with its outreach campaigns to target children and rope them into its activities. The Muslims are quite right to be paranoid about this. Of course, they probably pull similar stunts as well to try and attract people to Islam.

  • Grover

    Actually, its quite interesting how suspicious every seemingly innocuous activity is in the light of that religion's agenda to convert people. E.g. the Catholic church calling God Allah over in Malaysia (without a doubt to try and make Christianity more attractive to young Muslims that might not know better) or the Baha'i Faith with its outreach campaigns to target children and rope them into its activities. The Muslims are quite right to be paranoid about this. Of course, they probably pull similar stunts as well to try and attract people to Islam.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/farhan farhan

    Thanks Matt for this contribution; there is a further bias in translating the Quran.

    When i see the phrase "la illahi elallah" translated by "There is no God but Allah", I see a misleading bias that tends to say that the God of Islam is a different one from ours. The translation should either be “there is no God but God” or “there is no Allah but Allah”. It is like writing here “there is no God but Dieu”, implying that the French believe in a different God than the Anglo-Saxons.

  • farhan

    Thanks Matt for this contribution; there is a further bias in translating the Quran.

    When i see the phrase "la illahi elallah" translated by "There is no God but Allah", I see a misleading bias that tends to say that the God of Islam is a different one from ours. The translation should either be “there is no God but God” or “there is no Allah but Allah”. It is like writing here “there is no God but Dieu”, implying that the French believe in a different God than the Anglo-Saxons.

  • amishindian

    AbdulBaha said the Bahai Faith could not be organized and he gave Bahais the Guardian to prove it.

  • amishindian

    AbdulBaha said the Bahai Faith could not be organized and he gave Bahais the Guardian to prove it.

  • Robert Stockman

    Academics speak to the press all the time; the press calls them. In my case, I am listed as an academic expert on Baha'i subjects in several sites, including the American Academy of Religion because I teach Religious Studies at DePaul University. When the press calls, you answer their questions; there is no time to call someone and ask permission to talk to them. I am interviewed by reporters 3-5 times per year.

    In the case of this article, I was interviewed by telephone for 45 to 60 minutes. I have no control over which quotations the reporter uses. I was not the only academic interviewed, either; I know that because someone else was interviewed and emailed me about it.

    Robert Stockman

  • Robert Stockman

    Academics speak to the press all the time; the press calls them. In my case, I am listed as an academic expert on Baha'i subjects in several sites, including the American Academy of Religion because I teach Religious Studies at DePaul University. When the press calls, you answer their questions; there is no time to call someone and ask permission to talk to them. I am interviewed by reporters 3-5 times per year.

    In the case of this article, I was interviewed by telephone for 45 to 60 minutes. I have no control over which quotations the reporter uses. I was not the only academic interviewed, either; I know that because someone else was interviewed and emailed me about it.

    Robert Stockman

  • Robert Stockman

    Academics speak to the press all the time; the press calls them. In my case, I am listed as an academic expert on Baha'i subjects in several sites, including the American Academy of Religion because I teach Religious Studies at DePaul University. When the press calls, you answer their questions; there is no time to call someone and ask permission to talk to them. I am interviewed by reporters 3-5 times per year.

    In the case of this article, I was interviewed by telephone for 45 to 60 minutes. I have no control over which quotations the reporter uses. I was not the only academic interviewed, either; I know that because someone else was interviewed and emailed me about it.

    Robert Stockman

  • fubar

    are you saying that the guardian (shoghi effendi) was disorganized? was incapable of organizing bahai?

    as an XL-ex-bahai, I think that the bahai system relies on absurdly backward metaphysics, e.g., infallibility and prophetic revelation, to maintain the supposed "purity" of bahai institutions that would be better off subject to the forces of rational, critical thought and a more open/transparent "democractizing" process, in order to keep current and involved in the leading edge of psycho-social-cultural-spiritual evolution.

  • fubar

    are you saying that the guardian (shoghi effendi) was disorganized? was incapable of organizing bahai?

    as an XL-ex-bahai, I think that the bahai system relies on absurdly backward metaphysics, e.g., infallibility and prophetic revelation, to maintain the supposed "purity" of bahai institutions that would be better off subject to the forces of rational, critical thought and a more open/transparent "democractizing" process, in order to keep current and involved in the leading edge of psycho-social-cultural-spiritual evolution.

  • fubar

    are you saying that the guardian (shoghi effendi) was disorganized? was incapable of organizing bahai?

    as an XL-ex-bahai, I think that the bahai system relies on absurdly backward metaphysics, e.g., infallibility and prophetic revelation, to maintain the supposed "purity" of bahai institutions that would be better off subject to the forces of rational, critical thought and a more open/transparent "democractizing" process, in order to keep current and involved in the leading edge of psycho-social-cultural-spiritual evolution.

  • hello

    what if the Babi's trademark “the Bab”?

  • Craig Parke

    Anybody else see this today?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/08/irans-

    Do our guys have halos when they travel the world on everyone's money and give their endless personal opinions and theories on everything under the Sun to captive Baha'i audiences to get their psychological system of self definition ticket punched?

    Maybe the halo thing is the key factor in anything connected with Persian DNA on this plane of existence? The culture that invented crucifixion as a popular form of state execution (the Romans merely got the idea from them) really has some heavy karma going for it. Especially since many “Christian” nations are now all involved in building the nuclear tipped missiles or “flying nails” to carry out the planetary Crucifixion of Man. You just have to love all the folks in the Middle East “getting their Armageddon on” in both letter and spirit. The sons of Abraham are bigger than ever in world events.

    Meanwhile, my cat is on videotape bearing witness that I, myself, indeed have a halo when I post on Baha'i Rants. But, unlike Ahmadinejad , I believe that the Holocaust really did happen because I have read many documented books and personal accounts.

    So it goes.

  • Baquia

    Craig, I've been following the elections in Iran. I doubt that Mousavi will win. Only a few days left till we know for sure.

  • habibullah

    Bahai=islam
    same Allah but more confusion on zakat (read Aqdas and notes)
    He is Allah = Hovallah
    the same degree of antisemitism (read Abdulbaha secret of devine ..)
    never critisize muhammad's deeds(pedophilia mass murdering assasination … just read ibn ishaq

  • farhan

    Habibullah, the words of Christ on the cross, reported by Mathew and Mark, spoken in Aramaic, were « el?´i, el?´i, lema sabachthani » which in Arabic translates as « illahi, illahi lima tarkthani ? », meaning â€?My God, my God, why hast thou abandoned me?â€?. This doesn’t mean that Christ was a Moslem, but that Aramaic, Hebrew and Arabic are Semitic languages, as to opposed to other Indo-European languages we use. The word in Malay for God just happens top be â€?Allahâ€?, so there is no reason why it should be translated into â€?Godâ€? in English for Malay Christians. Also in Semitic languages, Rab, Rabbi mean Lord, and Abba, Abati or Abbi mean father. The West had a need to alienate Islam by claiming that Moslems believed in a different God, so as Craig rightly pointed out, Christians have not been made aware of this common ground.

  • Craig Parke

    Forget “Allah” vs “God” in cutting edge Divinity terminology to cause WWIII. I ask you Persians here what is the Farsi term for “ham fisted.” Does anyone know? The Grand Ayatollahs giving Ahmadinejad a 40% victory margin is stunningly “ham fisted”. Shouldn't they get somewhat better scenario writers to make it more believable?

    Is “ham fistedness” a genetic thing in the gene pool in that latitude? At least things were “tight” here in Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004. 40% seems a little over the top.

    Just like our guys making 7,000 of human spiritual evolution being taught top down one way and one way only WORLDWIDE FOREVER AND EVER FOR 1,000 YEARS in every different culture on Earth in a nuclear explosion of mind bending catastrophic “ham fistedness” it makes you wonder if this mindset is just in the gene pool of anything that comes out of those latitudes.

    So those of you born in that culture, what is the Farsi term for “ham fistedness”.

    Meanwhile, the true vigilance required to attract the true powers of the World Age is expressed in much better terms.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zydAs5bRW1U

    I think I will read me some Thomas Paine tonight as “the beards grow longer overnight” both in Tehran and Haifa.

    I say spiritual death to the usurpers of electoral processes in every human endeavor as Baha'u'llah set forth in the Tablet of the Holy Mariner. The Powers of the Universe are indeed fierce. Justice will eventually come upon fools and spiritually clueless buffoons.

    A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right.
    Thomas Paine

    It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry.
    Thomas Paine

    Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
    Thomas Paine

    Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst.
    Thomas Paine

    I believe in the equality of man; and I believe that religious duties consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and endeavoring to make our fellow-creatures happy.
    Thomas Paine

    Lead, follow, or get out of the way.
    Thomas Paine

    Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law.
    Thomas Paine

    And everybody in the world should get this written as a tattoo on their sorry behinds including me:

    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    Thomas Paine

  • habibullah

    Dear Farhan
    amazing your knowledge

    but Allah was -read was- one of gods (more than 360) in kaabah mecca long time before muhammad and HIS Quran.
    AllahuAkbar also was telling the pagan arabs that the Allah is greater
    than the others

    the only different idea was that there is only Allah and not other god than Allah

    this is from giudaism

    Deut. 6:4 “Shema Yisrael, Adonai Elohenou, Adonai Ehad”

    if Allah is the God of Israel please tell me why in Quran translations you read Allah and not God or Lord

    and when you say Howallah you are repeating that He (whom?) is Allah

    and please tell me do you know Ibn Ishaq?

  • farhan

    Dear Habibullah, I have a very small knowledge of Islam as I was brought up in a Christian environment; I have recently discovered Ibn Arabi, but I have no knowledge of Ibn Ishaq.

    Translators, as I said before, chose to translate “There is no God but Allah” instead of “there is no God but God” or “there is no Allah but Allah”. Humans have short term interest in dividing, opposing, alienating, chosing adversaries, but long term interest in conciliating and uniting,

  • habibullah

    Yes
    because Allah is a name and ilah is the word for God/god/idol
    The God of Israel(Jacob) has no name
    Allah was the name of Quraysh divinity.spirit embedded in HajarulAswad the black Stone attached to the corner of Kaba in Mecca in Arabia of 7th and before

    Nice words Conciliating and uniting

    Dear Farhan muhammadan islam devided the human beings in mumenoon and kuffar and the world in Darassalam Daralislam and Daralharb

    You think muhammad was a good guy because Bahaullah said so?

    do you know Bani qurayza? and bani nadir and bani gunayna?

    Muhammad calls them Alladeena hadoo -those guided

    they were arabs and thousand years before muhammad accepted read accepted the jewish religion

    please do your homework as a good bahai Taharrihaghighat and try to find out what happend to them

    and because I do not want to chat and just leave a comment so the next time I am not going to reoly and just add a comment

    i hope you have the intellectual bravery and peace of mind to investigate the FACTS

    thank you

  • farhan

    Habibullah, I have a collegue who has been through the Iranian prisons and tells me much more than all that, day in, day out. What I now want is for East and West to reconcile their differences. I am more intereseted in whatever unites than in whatever breeds further hate and division.

  • habibullah

    farhan 19 minutes ago
    Habibullah, I have a collegue who has been through the Iranian prisons and tells me much more than all that, day in, day out. Christ came to a highly sophisticated society of Romans and Hebrews. Muhamad came to a tribal society of savages that he brought through three revelations in one go.

    Are you sure they sere savages or just because you read the mantra of Jahlyyeh the time of ignorance??

    Muhammad was savage mass murderer treaty breaker holy month truce breaker caravan raider innocent killer pedophile …. not his fellow arabs

    What I now want is for East and West to reconcile their differences. I am far more interested in whatever unites than in whatever breeds further hate and division. We need this if we want this planet to survive. This is the fact, the bare rational reality at this hour. Our grand children will study Ibn Ishaq and the details of the savagry of those times if they survive the hatred of our generation. When I see Yann Arthus Bertrand’s film, I want to save this planet very badly, for my grand children, much more than fanning the embers of conflict between East and West.

    As bahai you feel the great responsability on your shoulder contribution and teaching

    what about the TRUTH what if muhammad was a liar what if the Quran is false fake copy (bad copy) of bible (60% of quran is from bible) why we have different stories why 118 foreign words in this book written in arabi mobin clear arabic why beat your woman kill the unbelievers whenever you find why jews are evil why muhammad refers to quran as Book but while alive never ordered to putit together why he said raping the prisoners is just okay why he had 11 wives and why we have more than 20% repeated ayat in quran why bahais say all the raids of muhammad were defensive(Abdulbaha) …. why they kill each others from 7th till now tomorro read the news

    why bahais never talk about the life of muhammad never critisize ???
    what about taharry haghighat??

    babi bahai is based on islam and if islam is a lie??

    what about zakat ?? what about 9 rakat of salat??
    bahaullah forgot the ayat salat after revelation??

    why he forgot as he promissed to regulate the zakat
    why he did not have information that in quran zakat is not defined ??
    and in his holy book he tells the bahais to go tofind out in islamic muhammadan quran

    why just why this and that if you are free to think

    why Abdulbaha is antisemite in his books and writings and repeating the mantras of islamic cult
    peace

  • amishindian

    Allah or God? I prefer Great Mysterious One. But then I am a Bahai, not an ex-Bahai, not a Bahaifian or any other of the various sects. Have never met Ruhi first hand. I don’t pray much. Only have a few Bahai books left and occasionally read a page or two. Listen sometimes to my tape of AbdulBaha chanting. Not much of a practicing Bahai but nevertheless I believe in Bahaullah and AbdulBaha and lets stop there. I pray for good translators and the growth of the internet for all the present and future independent investigators out there. And maybe some day a big ole Universal House of Justice, not the theocratic kind, with lots of different folks of all ethnic backgrounds, men, women, gay and straight. Is that too much to ask?

  • NOFAITH

    bahai faith religion sect cult is and going to be theocratic
    let us see when the bahai faith emigrates to his Yathrib (medina)
    I hope and will fight to block and stop his arraival
    while muhammad in mecca he was telling my faith is my faith your faith ,your faith

    In medina he said only islam and kill the non believers all
    and your life is mine your children and women and blongings either mine and Allah's

    but Allah being a Rock god in kaaba never claimed his or her part
    so all to muhammad girls money trees land power

    he was a ruthless warlord PBUH

  • shame

    Dear Matt, do you know the difference between Jew,israelite,Hebrew??

    “jews” of Medina are refered in Quran as Alladeena Hadoo – the Guided ones-
    First: Medina is NOT an arabic word it is hebrew
    then, they were ARABS who accepted the mosaic law and religion without Sword Taxes terror war ..
    there were_read were- 3 tribes Bani Nadir Bani Qaynuqa and Bani Qurayza they lived in a part of Yathrib called Medina they were skillful people and agriculturists

    where is your source regarding the freedom of religion in Medina ?? and when Muhammad PBUH wanted them to live by their own book?

    Quran entirely is rhetorical.
    why they have to come to Muhammad illitterate and pagan to ask advice and the desicion'' thousand years before Muhammad and HIS Quran they believed in one and only God.

    you see in just one Aya there are three parenthesis , none of them are necessary in particular the last one “really” and the last sentence is ?????? ?????????????? ????????????????=and these are not the believers.

    believers in Allah? of course NOT. why they have to believe in Rock god of quraysh the black stone hajarulAswad ?

    “when they have (their own) law before them?” is not correct
    ??????????? ????????????? = and with them is Torah or they have the Torah.

    OKAY.

    what Muhammad did to them?
    they were living there in peace with Aus and Khazraj (pagan arabs living in Yathrib ) and other fellow arabs of Arabia

    As soon as Muhammad touched the Yathrib -poor and jobless (he never worked) and was also unemployable, Judaized arabs of these tribes helped him and give him and his followers FOOD, he banned 2 and exterminated Bani Qurayza

    all their belongings and lands and trees ( when not cutted or burned) and women and children for him and muslims
    from bani qurayza he chose a young beautiful girl after killing her tribe parents and her husband and raped her the same day of Genocide. She never accepted islam and never married muhammad and alway remained the Slavegirl of Muhammad (those your right hand posses=sex slaves)

    Such a good guy this muhammad.

  • shame

    Dear Farhan you are wrong.
    “Good point, Craig. The word Hebrew word â€?Elohimâ€? is also related to the word Allah and the Moslems also use the word â€?Amenâ€?. Very obviously Muhammad guided the Arab tribes to Judeo-Christianity, even turning to Jerusalem in prayers in the early days.”
    Elohim is NOT related to Allah
    Amen is from:Deuteronomy 27:15 ” Cursed be the man who makes any engraved or molten image, an abomination to the Lord, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and sets it up in secret. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen”

    This is a prayer formula and is not the same as Amin but muhammad could not understand this. Muslim say Amin and not Amen and is not a metter of pronounciation.

    Muhammad plagiarized hebrew scripture
    60% of Quran is from the bible (many wrong ideas and stories)
    he copied the concept of mosaic religion giudaism
    1-prophet Moses/ muhammad
    2-people
    3-exodus hijrah
    4-a promised land
    5-a holy book
    6-a temple (separated men from women)
    7-jerusalem as quiblih
    8-clergy men and married ..
    9-…

    Yahweh I am who I am is repeated 6800 in the bible and never Allah
    The God of Israel has no name

    god in arabic is Ilah not Allah. Allah is a Name like Raham (god of yemenites )
    Elohim (plural) is a word we can find only in hebrew tests and not even in biblical aramaic or any other semitic language

    Allah the rock god of quraysh was associated to the Moon (but Hubal is another god)

    remember what you can find at the top of the mosque dome? a moon
    ….

    if you are a bahai are you a seeker of the truth?

    Who devided this world in Daralislam/Darassalam and Darralharb is Muhammad
    Who devided the heuman beings in believers and kuffar is muhammad
    (bahais has Ahbab vs aghyar , ask persian bahais)

  • shame

    Dear Matt, do you know the difference between Jew,israelite,Hebrew??

    “jews” of Medina are refered in Quran as Alladeena Hadoo – the Guided ones-
    First: Medina is NOT an arabic word it is hebrew
    then, they were ARABS who accepted the mosaic law and religion without Sword Taxes terror war ..
    there were_read were- 3 tribes Bani Nadir Bani Qaynuqa and Bani Qurayza they lived in a part of Yathrib called Medina they were skillful people and agriculturists

    where is your source regarding the freedom of religion in Medina ?? and when Muhammad PBUH wanted them to live by their own book?

    Quran entirely is rhetorical.
    why they have to come to Muhammad illitterate and pagan to ask advice and the desicion'' thousand years before Muhammad and HIS Quran they believed in one and only God.

    you see in just one Aya there are three parenthesis , none of them are necessary in particular the last one “really” and the last sentence is ?????? ?????????????? ????????????????=and these are not the believers.

    believers in Allah? of course NOT. why they have to believe in Rock god of quraysh the black stone hajarulAswad ?

    “when they have (their own) law before them?” is not correct
    ??????????? ????????????? = and with them is Torah or they have the Torah.

    OKAY.

    what Muhammad did to them?
    they were living there in peace with Aus and Khazraj (pagan arabs living in Yathrib ) and other fellow arabs of Arabia

    As soon as Muhammad touched the Yathrib -poor and jobless (he never worked) and was also unemployable, Judaized arabs of these tribes helped him and give him and his followers FOOD, he banned 2 and exterminated Bani Qurayza

    all their belongings and lands and trees ( when not cutted or burned) and women and children for him and muslims
    from bani qurayza he chose a young beautiful girl after killing her tribe parents and her husband and raped her the same day of Genocide. She never accepted islam and never married muhammad and alway remained the Slavegirl of Muhammad (those your right hand posses=sex slaves)

    Such a good guy this muhammad.

  • shame

    Dear Farhan you are wrong.
    “Good point, Craig. The word Hebrew word â€?Elohimâ€? is also related to the word Allah and the Moslems also use the word â€?Amenâ€?. Very obviously Muhammad guided the Arab tribes to Judeo-Christianity, even turning to Jerusalem in prayers in the early days.”
    Elohim is NOT related to Allah
    Amen is from:Deuteronomy 27:15 ” Cursed be the man who makes any engraved or molten image, an abomination to the Lord, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and sets it up in secret. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen”

    This is a prayer formula and is not the same as Amin but muhammad could not understand this. Muslim say Amin and not Amen and is not a metter of pronounciation.

    Muhammad plagiarized hebrew scripture
    60% of Quran is from the bible (many wrong ideas and stories)
    he copied the concept of mosaic religion giudaism
    1-prophet Moses/ muhammad
    2-people
    3-exodus hijrah
    4-a promised land
    5-a holy book
    6-a temple (separated men from women)
    7-jerusalem as quiblih
    8-clergy men and married ..
    9-…

    Yahweh I am who I am is repeated 6800 in the bible and never Allah
    The God of Israel has no name

    god in arabic is Ilah not Allah. Allah is a Name like Raham (god of yemenites )
    Elohim (plural) is a word we can find only in hebrew tests and not even in biblical aramaic or any other semitic language

    Allah the rock god of quraysh was associated to the Moon (but Hubal is another god)

    remember what you can find at the top of the mosque dome? a moon
    ….

    if you are a bahai are you a seeker of the truth?

    Who devided this world in Daralislam/Darassalam and Darralharb is Muhammad
    Who devided the heuman beings in believers and kuffar is muhammad
    (bahais has Ahbab vs aghyar , ask persian bahais)

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