Comments on: Arrested Iranian Baha’is Face Islamic Court

By: farhan

farhan — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:49:22 +0000

Pey wrote : Fortunately I don't think that the Bahais would ever regress to such horrible tactics as in the past..

I don’t believe that for one minute either; I am sure that diversity of religions and traditions will persist, and the extent to which a Baha’i inspired state would allow gay marriages and polygamy outside the boundaries of our spiritual commitments and beliefs depends no doubt on the results of consultation in that state at a given time. There is a huge difference between spiritual prescription which we are free to “accept or leave” and state enforced penal offences that can lead to civil sanctions. I continue to believe that those who are offended by women in bikini or in veils, should choose live where they are not common.

By: pey

pey — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:00:30 +0000

well as long as a Bahai inspired state doesn't have penal codes that would imprison or deny rights to people who don't prescribe to strict Bahai law, then we are ok. But your previous posts don't lead me to believe that- nor what most traditional Bahais believe will be the future Bahai commomwealth. So if you feel insulted by what I fear could be the worse, then so be it.

By: farhan

farhan — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 14:37:47 +0000

Pey wrote: So there would be Taliban like Bahai states that have strict enforcement of Bahai law as dictated by the UHJ (no recognition of gay families or their ability to adopt)

Pey, I don’t believe there would ever be “Taliban like Baha’i states”, but you are free to imagine such a scenario that is insulting to my fellow Baha’is if you wish. We have enough to worry about for the survival of our planet at this time, and you are already in your own priority with a scenario of gay relations and adoption in some centuries.

By: farhan

farhan — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:34:39 +0000

Pey wrote : Many of us Bahais feel highly insulted by what you describe. But you have the right to your opinion.

What do which Baha’is feel insulting in what I described ?

By: pey

pey — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:22:22 +0000

Sorry maybe I misunderstood you when you said: "Who knows, we might have Taliban states as a choice for those who still prefer them, unless the Baha’i inspired states allow for Taliban principles within them. "
I thought you were saying that there will be a varied forms of Bahai states in the future-some Taliban like and others more liberal. But please Farhan, you can take your self-righteous indignation and keep it to yourself. As a Bahai, I am insulted by the thought of creating a Bahai state where people's freedoms are limited and their only option is to get up and leave. Many of us Bahais feel highly insulted by what you describe. But you have the right to your opinion.

By: pey

pey — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:18:00 +0000

Oh was this the same Constantine who had thousands of fellow Christians executed because their interpretation of the Bible didn't equal his? Thanks but I don't want a Bahai state like that either. Fortunately I don't think that the Bahais would ever regress to such horrible tactics as in the past, but I do believe that a strict control of a society where no one can discuss issues such as gay couples getting married and raising children (which is just ONE issue farhan that I care about; there are many more in the Bahai community). this is will not be a healthy society. And your solution is that such people just get up and leave. You said so yourself. How is that different from Baquia suggesting the same thing for the Bahais in Iran who are facing persecution? Again just the level of persecution?

By: farhan

farhan — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 10:38:55 +0000

Pey wrote: So there would be Taliban like Bahai states that have strict enforcement of Bahai law as dictated by the UHJ (no recognition of gay families or their ability to adopt)

Pey, I don’t believe there would ever be “Taliban like Baha’i states”, but you are free to imagine such a scenario that is insulting to my fellow Baha’is if you wish. We have enough to worry about for the survival of our planet at this time, and you are already in yourown priority with a scenario of gay relations and adoption in some centuries.

By: farhan

farhan — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 10:36:59 +0000

Pey wrote: So there would be Taliban like Bahai states that have strict enforcement of Bahai law as dictated by the UHJ (no recognition of gay families or their ability to adopt)

Pey, I don’t believe there would ever be “Taliban like Baha’i states”, but you are free to imagine such a scenario that is insulting to my fellow Baha’is if you wish. We have enough to worry about for the survival of our planet at this time, and you are already in yourown priority with a scenario of gay relations and adoption in some centuries.

By: farhan

farhan — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 00:11:57 +0000

Pey wrote: But you believe that a future state that submits to the UHJ will try to enforce Bahai laws (with no didscussion on the validity of these laws or the ability to change them).
Farhan: In a science fiction scenario, I can imagine that in some centuries, the UHJ could be an arbitrating institution, applying Baha’i principles to any democratic system of government wishing to seek that arbitration. For the time being, the UHJ interprets this by ruling out discrimination against gays, but considering that this way of life and belief is not in tune with those who wish to call themselves Baha’is.

Pey: And you said if people don’t enjoy such a Bahai state, then they can get up and move to another state that doesn’t apply Bahai law.
Farhan: In a science fiction scenario, I can imagine that a Baha’i state would have attractive attributes; otherwise people would not have adopted its principles, like Constantine adopted Christianity 300 years after Christ. Apparently the only aspect of life in a Baha’i state that interests you would be the liberalisation or not of gay relations, without considering the fact that lacking spiritualisation and arbitration, life could entirely disappear on this planet. If masses of other people would prefer the Baha’i principles to no principles or other social principles, would you want to prevent adopting them? Who knows, we might have Taliban states as a choice for those who still prefer them, unless the Baha’i inspired states allow for Taliban principles within them.