Baha’i Administrative Body of Iran Arrested

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Breaking News
Morning Wednesday May 14th, 2008 – Tehran, Iran

Report from the Universal House of Justice

… the members of the Friends in Iran – the group that coordinates the activities of the Baha’i community in the absence of a National Spiritual Assembly in the Cradle of the Faith – have been summarily and unjustly arrested by the Iranian authorities in raids conducted in the early hours of this morning, 14 May 2008. Details are as follows.

Officers of the Intelligence Ministry in Tehran entered the homes of six of the seven members of the Friends in Iran, whereupon they conducted extensive searches, following which all six were arrested and brought to the notorious Evin Prison in Tehran. These individuals – Mrs. Fariba Kamalabadi [Fariba Kamalabadi], Mr. Jamalu’d-Din Khanjani [Jamaloddin Khanjani], Mr. ‘Afif Na’imi [Afif Naeimi], Mr. Sa’id Rida’i [Saeid Rezaie], Mr. Bihruz Tavakkuli [Behrouz Tavakkoli], and Mr. Vahid Tizfahm [Vahid Tizfahm] – now join the seventh member of the group, Mrs. Mahvash Thabit [Mahvash Sabet], resident of Tehran and Secretary of the Friends in Iran, who has been held in custody since 5 March 2008 when she was summoned to Mashhad by the Ministry of Intelligence, ostensibly on the grounds that she was required to answer questions related to the burial of an individual in the Baha’i cemetery in that city. Contrary to recent indications that Mrs. Thabit would be released some time soon, the events that have transpired today are yet another indication of the government’s determination to extinguish the Baha’i community in the land of its birth.

… such dire action on the part of the government has not been witnessed since the heartrending events in 1980 and 1981, when all nine members of the National Spiritual Assembly of Iran were abducted on 21 August 1980 and disappeared without a trace, following which the reconstituted National Assembly was again ravaged by the execution of eight of its members on 27 December 1981.

yaran bahai group iran

Related from Baha’i Rants:

Three Baha’is jailed in Iran
Intensifying persecutions in Iran
Return of the Hojjatieh Society
Those “devious” Baha’is
Iran steps up monitoring of Baha’is
Persecution of Baha’is linked to Hojjatieh Society

* * * * * * * * *

I wrote this more than 2 years ago:

With the arrival of the new president, everyone has noted that Iran’s political situation has taken a very bad turn. Unfortunately most people don’t have even a clue as to the extent nor the underlying reasons. I hope to shed some light in the next paragraphs and once again, show why I believe the UHJ’s policy of encouraging Baha’is to remain in Iran is completely wrong and extremely dangerous.
…
The recent arrests and persecution of Baha’is in Iran are, I’m afraid, only the beginning of a renewed campaign of persecution. Unlike previous administrations in Iran which were reluctantly influenced by international pressure, the perverse ideology to which this one subscribes to allows them to be immune to such forces. Any and all actions taken by the civilized world against the Iranian regime as a consequence of the persecution of Baha’is, will only reinforce the belief system of the Hojatieh and result in their redoubled efforts to sow the seeds of chaos.

I pray that I am completely wrong in my understanding of the situation and wholly ignorant of the real political cross currents in Iran. I pray so because if I am right, many Baha’is are in extreme and imminent danger.

I beg them to get out, for if I am wrong, the consequence is acceptable. They and their families can build a life in one of many civilized countries in the world and simply go back when Iran’s future changes for the better. But if I’m correct, then the consequences of staying in Iran will be tragic.

If a lowly blogger with limited resources can put the pieces together a few years in advance, it is safe to require the UHJ/ITC to have done so years ahead and with a much deeper understanding. Which is why I’m utterly puzzled why this time around the highest administrative bodies are choosing to do nothing when in the aftermath of the 1979 revolution they were not only encouraging Baha’is to leave Iran but actively involved with helping them re-establish a life outside of Iran.

As Baha’is we have faced many waves of persecution and violence. But it is not within the precepts of our Faith to seek out martyrdom when there is a clear alternative.

Related External Links:

Iranian Human Rights Documentation Center – Press Release
LA TIMES: Blog Post – Babylon & Beyond
US State Department – Press Release
United States on International Religious Freedom – Press Release
United Nations Special Rapporteur: Report on Baha’is in Iran – March 2006

Related posts:

  1. Arrested Iranian Baha’is Face Islamic Court
  2. Baha’is Arrested in Iran
  3. Farewell To Iran
  4. Sentinel Project Monitors Safety of the Baha’is of Iran
  5. Update on the Baha’is of Shiraz

← Older Comments
  • Concourse on Low

    Carmen,

    If you’re going to refer to my use of hynea to describe you, then don’t misquote me to serve your own ends. I used that term in anger because of you constant inexcusable distortions of my comments regarding Bahais in Iran, and your repeated non-sequiturs.

    I find you dishonest, manipulative and shallow. Please don’t refer to me again, and I will return the favor.

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    Farhan, I realize that describing the Baha’i community in Iran without varnish does cause some pain. Of course I do not mean to disparage all Baha’is in Iran but to point out the effect of living in the cesspool that is now Iran. The reason why I wrote that was to counter the romanticized version of the community that most have outside Iran. They have no idea how the Baha’is in Iran, especially the youth, suffer and to what depths of adaptation they have to sink to. This is a direct consequence of not being encouraged and helped to leave Iran’s negative influence. Since you have stated before that you have family in Iran you can easily ascertain the truth of what I say. But if you are asking me to reveal my sources and methods, I’m afraid I can not do that.

    I have written and broken many news and each time it is something undesirable – for example, the corruption case in Italy – I am called names, my motivations questioned, etc. This is nothing new to me. It speaks of the immaturity of the Baha’i community and its lack of a free press. Let fellow Baha’is level charges and innuendo at me. In the end it is they who will melt away. They don’t even have the decency of coming back and apologizing (as in Marco’s case in the link above).

  • Concourse on Low

    Carmen,

    If you’re going to refer to my use of hynea to describe you, then don’t misquote me to serve your own ends. I used that term in anger because of you constant inexcusable distortions of my comments regarding Bahais in Iran, and your repeated non-sequiturs.

    I find you dishonest, manipulative and shallow. Please don’t refer to me again, and I will return the favor.

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    Farhan, I realize that describing the Baha’i community in Iran without varnish does cause some pain. Of course I do not mean to disparage all Baha’is in Iran but to point out the effect of living in the cesspool that is now Iran. The reason why I wrote that was to counter the romanticized version of the community that most have outside Iran. They have no idea how the Baha’is in Iran, especially the youth, suffer and to what depths of adaptation they have to sink to. This is a direct consequence of not being encouraged and helped to leave Iran’s negative influence. Since you have stated before that you have family in Iran you can easily ascertain the truth of what I say. But if you are asking me to reveal my sources and methods, I’m afraid I can not do that.

    I have written and broken many news and each time it is something undesirable – for example, the corruption case in Italy – I am called names, my motivations questioned, etc. This is nothing new to me. It speaks of the immaturity of the Baha’i community and its lack of a free press. Let fellow Baha’is level charges and innuendo at me. In the end it is they who will melt away. They don’t even have the decency of coming back and apologizing (as in Marco’s case in the link above).

  • Carm-again

    Baquia wrote:”Unlike your romanticized version of a heroic community you should know that the Baha’i youth in Iran are as much polluted with the filth of the society they inhabit as other youth. Corruption, prostitution, drug-use, etc. are rampant on a scale that you can not imagine. And yes, I’m talking about the Baha’i community. Not just the Iranian community in general.”

    Farhan wrote: “I would be happy to have some objective support for this claim. I cant see where you could have obtained this data.”

    It was this wholesale characterization of the Baha’i youth in Iran, for which Baquia cannot possibly have any empirical proof (and if he does he must provide the details as is only fitting), which made me suddenly remember not only the UHJ’s message re internal opposition which I posted for Anonymouz but made me also fully realize what Baquia is REALLY about. As I stated in a previous post, unless he has visited the various communities throughout Iran and collected empirical evidence including police arrest reports for coruption, drug use and prostition (which must be EASILY obtainable since it is “RAMPANT ON A SCALE YOU CANNOT IMAGINE”) one would be hard pressed to understand how he could have come to such a conclusion.

    He is clearly very subtle and crafty in the pursuit of his agenda but every now and again such statements give the game away re his real aims. This statement is not just a rant nor is it just just an accusation. It speaks volumes for those who want to hear. It very much reminds me of the type of statements I have read by Frederick Glaysher (e.g. the allegation that the US NSA murdered fellow NSA member Dan Jordan despite the fact that the police thoroughly investigated the crime and such an accusation is entirely baseless).

    Carmen

  • Carm-again

    Baquia wrote:”Unlike your romanticized version of a heroic community you should know that the Baha’i youth in Iran are as much polluted with the filth of the society they inhabit as other youth. Corruption, prostitution, drug-use, etc. are rampant on a scale that you can not imagine. And yes, I’m talking about the Baha’i community. Not just the Iranian community in general.”

    Farhan wrote: “I would be happy to have some objective support for this claim. I cant see where you could have obtained this data.”

    It was this wholesale characterization of the Baha’i youth in Iran, for which Baquia cannot possibly have any empirical proof (and if he does he must provide the details as is only fitting), which made me suddenly remember not only the UHJ’s message re internal opposition which I posted for Anonymouz but made me also fully realize what Baquia is REALLY about. As I stated in a previous post, unless he has visited the various communities throughout Iran and collected empirical evidence including police arrest reports for coruption, drug use and prostition (which must be EASILY obtainable since it is “RAMPANT ON A SCALE YOU CANNOT IMAGINE”) one would be hard pressed to understand how he could have come to such a conclusion.

    He is clearly very subtle and crafty in the pursuit of his agenda but every now and again such statements give the game away re his real aims. This statement is not just a rant nor is it just just an accusation. It speaks volumes for those who want to hear. It very much reminds me of the type of statements I have read by Frederick Glaysher (e.g. the allegation that the US NSA murdered fellow NSA member Dan Jordan despite the fact that the police thoroughly investigated the crime and such an accusation is entirely baseless).

    Carmen

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    Allah’u'Abha and thank you for stopping by again Carmen. And thank you for the basket of poisoned words. Please do not forget to take your share of honey on the way out.

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    Allah’u'Abha and thank you for stopping by again Carmen. And thank you for the basket of poisoned words. Please do not forget to take your share of honey on the way out.

  • anonymouz

    Im done here. I am starting my own blog.

    Anyone who would like to participate in healthy, spiritual and real world project planning, email me at pchampions at gmail dot com

    I may chime in from time to time, only with quotes though.

  • anonymouz

    Im done here. I am starting my own blog.

    Anyone who would like to participate in healthy, spiritual and real world project planning, email me at pchampions at gmail dot com

    I may chime in from time to time, only with quotes though.

  • farhan

    Baquia wrote:
    “The reason why I wrote that was to counter the romanticized version of the community that most have outside Iran. ”

    Thanks for the explanation, Baquia. I have no direct source in Iran, I can well understand the pains of child education in Iran, and the urge to flee, but I do have doubts about who at this moment can be considered as a Baha’i in Iran; obviously those who feel they have a mission to respond to the call of the UHJ for spiritualising their fellow citisens are not those afflicted by the ills you are describing.

    Also, after some decades on internet I have learned that trying to analyse people on the net is counter productive; we can only analyse ideas; so trying to guess if you are a man, a woman, black or white, young or old, or even a group of persons does not make sense. The names we might call each other are like projections on a Rorchach plate.

  • Farhan YAZDANI

    Baquia wrote:
    “The reason why I wrote that was to counter the romanticized version of the community that most have outside Iran. ”

    Thanks for the explanation, Baquia. I have no direct source in Iran, I can well understand the pains of child education in Iran, and the urge to flee, but I do have doubts about who at this moment can be considered as a Baha’i in Iran; obviously those who feel they have a mission to respond to the call of the UHJ for spiritualising their fellow citisens are not those afflicted by the ills you are describing.

    Also, after some decades on internet I have learned that trying to analyse people on the net is counter productive; we can only analyse ideas; so trying to guess if you are a man, a woman, black or white, young or old, or even a group of persons does not make sense. The names we might call each other are like projections on a Rorchach plate.

  • Concourse on Low

    Anonymuz, in your comment prior to the last one, you take a very dim view of your reasoning powers and their ability to lead to sound conclusions, disparaging human understanding as mere “personal perception.” How is it, then, that you are so confident about your belief in Baha’u'llah?

    Faith? But surely you had to at some point reason your way to selecting Baha’u'llah from among inumberable other candidates for faith-based belief. But if human reasoning is so unreliable, as you say, how can you defend your convictions about Baha’u'llah?

    You also state that, “This whole religion is about unity and yielding the individual perception to that of the actions of the group.”

    I certainly hope not, inasmuch as such reasoning has been used to justify everything from the Spanish inquisitions to the gas chambers of the Holocaust. You can find those exact same sentiments in the speeches of the medieval Catholic popes, Hitler and Lenin.

  • Concourse on Low

    Anonymuz, in your comment prior to the last one, you take a very dim view of your reasoning powers and their ability to lead to sound conclusions, disparaging human understanding as mere “personal perception.” How is it, then, that you are so confident about your belief in Baha’u'llah?

    Faith? But surely you had to at some point reason your way to selecting Baha’u'llah from among inumberable other candidates for faith-based belief. But if human reasoning is so unreliable, as you say, how can you defend your convictions about Baha’u'llah?

    You also state that, “This whole religion is about unity and yielding the individual perception to that of the actions of the group.”

    I certainly hope not, inasmuch as such reasoning has been used to justify everything from the Spanish inquisitions to the gas chambers of the Holocaust. You can find those exact same sentiments in the speeches of the medieval Catholic popes, Hitler and Lenin.

  • Grover

    This is absolutely typical of religious debates. There was a time when an academic in history criticised the Mormon version of the history of the Latter Day Saints and Joseph Smith. The Mormons in the class were offended and complained to department chairman and a couple of other academics. They responded by offering a debating evening where both sides could present their views. So in front of a largely hostile audience (mostly Mormon) the academic presented his evidence which was pretty compelling. The Mormon side didn’t even bother refuting the evidence, they attacked the character of the academic instead.

    Why does this occur? Because devout religious people can never step back and objectively look at the evidence if it conflicts with their world view. They get angry, go into denial, and become aggressive. This is exactly what is happening here, and from people who profess to be Baha’is, and who should know that to be a true Baha’i, one must be detached from all things.

  • Grover

    This is absolutely typical of religious debates. There was a time when an academic in history criticised the Mormon version of the history of the Latter Day Saints and Joseph Smith. The Mormons in the class were offended and complained to department chairman and a couple of other academics. They responded by offering a debating evening where both sides could present their views. So in front of a largely hostile audience (mostly Mormon) the academic presented his evidence which was pretty compelling. The Mormon side didn’t even bother refuting the evidence, they attacked the character of the academic instead.

    Why does this occur? Because devout religious people can never step back and objectively look at the evidence if it conflicts with their world view. They get angry, go into denial, and become aggressive. This is exactly what is happening here, and from people who profess to be Baha’is, and who should know that to be a true Baha’i, one must be detached from all things.

  • anonymouz

    [quote comment=""]Anonymuz, in your comment prior to the last one, you take a very dim view of your reasoning powers and their ability to lead to sound conclusions, disparaging human understanding as mere “personal perception.” How is it, then, that you are so confident about your belief in Baha’u'llah?

    Faith? But surely you had to at some point reason your way to selecting Baha’u'llah from among inumberable other candidates for faith-based belief. But if human reasoning is so unreliable, as you say, how can you defend your convictions about Baha’u'llah?

    You also state that, “This whole religion is about unity and yielding the individual perception to that of the actions of the group.”

    I certainly hope not, inasmuch as such reasoning has been used to justify everything from the Spanish inquisitions to the gas chambers of the Holocaust. You can find those exact same sentiments in the speeches of the medieval Catholic popes, Hitler and Lenin.[/quote]

    Concourse on Low,

    That last comment about comparing the Baha’i Faith to those tyrants is not even worth the time to respond. Article from Baha’i Library.

  • anonymouz

    [quote comment=""]Anonymuz, in your comment prior to the last one, you take a very dim view of your reasoning powers and their ability to lead to sound conclusions, disparaging human understanding as mere “personal perception.” How is it, then, that you are so confident about your belief in Baha’u'llah?

    Faith? But surely you had to at some point reason your way to selecting Baha’u'llah from among inumberable other candidates for faith-based belief. But if human reasoning is so unreliable, as you say, how can you defend your convictions about Baha’u'llah?

    You also state that, “This whole religion is about unity and yielding the individual perception to that of the actions of the group.”

    I certainly hope not, inasmuch as such reasoning has been used to justify everything from the Spanish inquisitions to the gas chambers of the Holocaust. You can find those exact same sentiments in the speeches of the medieval Catholic popes, Hitler and Lenin.[/quote]

    Concourse on Low,

    That last comment about comparing the Baha’i Faith to those tyrants is not even worth the time to respond. Article from Baha’i Library.

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    CoL didn’t compare the Baha’i Faith to anything but it seems you have interpreted it that way yourself. CoL was pointing out that in the past humanity has seen such reasoning or logic lead to disastrous ends. Of course the Baha’i Faith lauds the individual and their conscience. It elevates people out of such limitations by abolishing taqlid and in its stead instituting individual and independent investigation of truth.

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    CoL didn’t compare the Baha’i Faith to anything but it seems you have interpreted it that way yourself. CoL was pointing out that in the past humanity has seen such reasoning or logic lead to disastrous ends. Of course the Baha’i Faith lauds the individual and their conscience. It elevates people out of such limitations by abolishing taqlid and in its stead instituting individual and independent investigation of truth.

  • farhan

    Grover writes:

    “Why does this occur? Because devout religious people can never step back and objectively look at the evidence if it conflicts with their world view. They get angry, go into denial, and become aggressive.”

    Grover, this is the subject treated by FAIR Charles, in “The New Nonsense, The End of the Rational Consensus”, New York ; Simon and Schuster, 1974.

    My answer to your question is that it is difficult for us all to harmonise our left and right brains, and when discrepancies arise, we feel insecure. This is the whole point in meditation where you confront and harmonise the rational and emotional data. It is also more reassuring to exchange with those who help you harmonise your rational and emotional faculties than with those who foster conflict.

  • Farhan YAZDANI

    Grover writes:

    “Why does this occur? Because devout religious people can never step back and objectively look at the evidence if it conflicts with their world view. They get angry, go into denial, and become aggressive.”

    Grover, this is the subject treated by FAIR Charles, in “The New Nonsense, The End of the Rational Consensus”, New York ; Simon and Schuster, 1974.

    My answer to your question is that it is difficult for us all to harmonise our left and right brains, and when discrepancies arise, we feel insecure. This is the whole point in meditation where you confront and harmonise the rational and emotional data. It is also more reassuring to exchange with those who help you harmonise your rational and emotional faculties than with those who foster conflict.

  • Carmen

    Baquia wrote: “Allah’u'Abha and thank you for stopping by again Carmen. And thank you for the basket of poisoned words. Please do not forget to take your share of honey on the way out”

    I am still waiting for you to back up your highly poisonous and extremely prejudicial categorization of tens of thousands of Baha’i youth in Iran as being rampantly engaged in drug-use, prostitution and corruption. Where are your facts? You do not have any. You are deliberately carrying on a smear campaign against these youths based solely on your own prejudiced perceptions.

    Carmen

  • Carmen

    Baquia wrote: “Allah’u'Abha and thank you for stopping by again Carmen. And thank you for the basket of poisoned words. Please do not forget to take your share of honey on the way out”

    I am still waiting for you to back up your highly poisonous and extremely prejudicial categorization of tens of thousands of Baha’i youth in Iran as being rampantly engaged in drug-use, prostitution and corruption. Where are your facts? You do not have any. You are deliberately carrying on a smear campaign against these youths based solely on your own prejudiced perceptions.

    Carmen

  • Concourse on Low

    Grover,

    I agree with you. Religious fanaticism, which is one form of broader dogmatic thinking, is inextricably linked with psychopathology. The psychology of religion has produced a lot of good literature on the subject.

    Anonymouz,

    Your unfortunate but predictable misconstrual of my remark has been sufficiently addressed by Baquia.

    Instead of actually addressing my comment, you’ve once again succumbed to a sudden onset of quoteitis. Uh-oh, I think it might be contagious!

    Furthermore, know ye that God has created in man the power of reason whereby man is enabled to investigate reality. God has not intended man to blindly imitate his fathers and ancestors. He has endowed him with mind or the faculty of reasoning by the exercise of which he is to investigate and discover the truth; and that which he finds real and true, he must accept. He must not be an imitator or blind follower of any soul. He must not rely implicitly upon the opinion of any man without investigation; nay, each soul must seek intelligently and independently, arriving at a real conclusion and bound only by that reality.

    (Abdu’l-Baha, Foundations of World Unity, p. 73)

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  • Concourse on Low

    Grover,

    I agree with you. Religious fanaticism, which is one form of broader dogmatic thinking, is inextricably linked with psychopathology. The psychology of religion has produced a lot of good literature on the subject.

    Anonymouz,

    Your unfortunate but predictable misconstrual of my remark has been sufficiently addressed by Baquia.

    Instead of actually addressing my comment, you’ve once again succumbed to a sudden onset of quoteitis. Uh-oh, I think it might be contagious!

    Furthermore, know ye that God has created in man the power of reason whereby man is enabled to investigate reality. God has not intended man to blindly imitate his fathers and ancestors. He has endowed him with mind or the faculty of reasoning by the exercise of which he is to investigate and discover the truth; and that which he finds real and true, he must accept. He must not be an imitator or blind follower of any soul. He must not rely implicitly upon the opinion of any man without investigation; nay, each soul must seek intelligently and independently, arriving at a real conclusion and bound only by that reality.

    (Abdu’l-Baha, Foundations of World Unity, p. 73)

  • http://bahaisonline.net Steve Marshall

    Hi Carmen,

    You wrote to Baquia:
    [quote comment="52194"]I am still waiting for you to back up your highly poisonous and extremely prejudicial categorization of tens of thousands of Baha’i youth in Iran as being rampantly engaged in drug-use, prostitution and corruption.[/quote]

    Here’s what Baquia actually wrote:

    [quote]…you should know that the Baha’i youth in Iran are as much polluted with the filth of the society they inhabit as other youth. Corruption, prostitution, drug-use, etc. are rampant on a scale that you can not imagine.[/quote]

    Baquia made no mention of tens of thousands of Baha’i youth. What Baquia said, if I can paraphrase it, is that Baha’i youth in Iran are getting up to the same things Muslim and other youth in Iran are getting up to, and that it’s wild/depraved. Has Baquia offered any evidence? No, but that’s par for the course around here.

    Here’s some evidence supporting Baquia’s statement. It’s from Jared Cohen, a young and evidently very talented Westerner, who infiltrated the Middle East youth culture amd lived to tell the tale:

    [quote]You said there was a sort of wild social scene in all of these countries.
    Cohen: They’re all wild in their own way. Lebanon has the most open party scene. Lebanon has the most sort of free culture in terms of young people being able to do what they want. Iran is the most closed, but has the craziest underground.

    What do you mean by underground?

    Young people will find ways to rebel and put aside their political, ethnic, national, and religious identities and just behave as young people. On the sort of more superficial side, they had these wild and crazy parties in alleyways and private homes, where they make alcohol in bathtubs and sinks.[/quote]

    I hear you saying that Baha’i youth are different, and they wouldn’t be included in the Iranian underground party scene, anyway, due to religious prejudice on the part of other youth in Iran. I think Jared Cohen would disagree:

    [quote]There’s a chapter in my book called “Democracy After Dark.” I argue that the darker it is outside, the less names, religion, and politics matter. All of that is overshadowed by a common desire to act like a young person. Depending on where you are and what community you’re in, people rebel in different kinds of ways. Every now and then I’d catch Hezbollah guys out in Christian nightclubs pretending they were something else. Even though they’re Hezbollah and would never want to get caught doing this, they’re still just young men.[/quote]

    ka kite
    Steve

  • http://bahaisonline.net Steve Marshall

    Hi Carmen,

    You wrote to Baquia:
    [quote comment="52194"]I am still waiting for you to back up your highly poisonous and extremely prejudicial categorization of tens of thousands of Baha’i youth in Iran as being rampantly engaged in drug-use, prostitution and corruption.[/quote]

    Here’s what Baquia actually wrote:

    [quote]…you should know that the Baha’i youth in Iran are as much polluted with the filth of the society they inhabit as other youth. Corruption, prostitution, drug-use, etc. are rampant on a scale that you can not imagine.[/quote]

    Baquia made no mention of tens of thousands of Baha’i youth. What Baquia said, if I can paraphrase it, is that Baha’i youth in Iran are getting up to the same things Muslim and other youth in Iran are getting up to, and that it’s wild/depraved. Has Baquia offered any evidence? No, but that’s par for the course around here.

    Here’s some evidence supporting Baquia’s statement. It’s from Jared Cohen, a young and evidently very talented Westerner, who infiltrated the Middle East youth culture amd lived to tell the tale:

    [quote]You said there was a sort of wild social scene in all of these countries.

    Cohen: They’re all wild in their own way. Lebanon has the most open party scene. Lebanon has the most sort of free culture in terms of young people being able to do what they want. Iran is the most closed, but has the craziest underground.

    What do you mean by underground?

    Young people will find ways to rebel and put aside their political, ethnic, national, and religious identities and just behave as young people. On the sort of more superficial side, they had these wild and crazy parties in alleyways and private homes, where they make alcohol in bathtubs and sinks.[/quote]

    I hear you saying that Baha’i youth are different, and they wouldn’t be included in the Iranian underground party scene, anyway, due to religious prejudice on the part of other youth in Iran. I think Jared Cohen would disagree:

    [quote]There’s a chapter in my book called “Democracy After Dark.” I argue that the darker it is outside, the less names, religion, and politics matter. All of that is overshadowed by a common desire to act like a young person. Depending on where you are and what community you’re in, people rebel in different kinds of ways. Every now and then I’d catch Hezbollah guys out in Christian nightclubs pretending they were something else. Even though they’re Hezbollah and would never want to get caught doing this, they’re still just young men.[/quote]

    ka kite
    Steve

  • Craig Parke

    [quote comment="52125"]

    anonymouz wrote:

    Craig: You keep making references to individuals House members which means nothing to me, nor should it to you.

    [/quote]

    Sorry. I disagree. I hold these people personally responsible for what comes out of their hapless mouths. Especially when a thoughtless public comment of a major figure in the AO destroys a very successful 12 year teaching project I had going.

    Unquestioned devotion and acceptance. Do I always understand it? No. `God will verily inspire them with whatsoever He willeth’.

    God has apparently inspired these men to COMPLETELY DESTROY the Baha’i Faith. And they are doing a damn good job of it!

    These opinions and efforts to use independent investigation of truth, if done in the spirit they were intended and with a solid foundation grounded in spiritual understandings, would eventually lead back to the realization that one can never completely understand the reasons or nature of perceived realities. It always comes back to personal interpretation, backed up with more human reasoning or understanding. this is where we enter Faith…

    Questioning or complaining about the UHJ decisions in counterproductive and runs against the grain of the very nature and essence of what it means to have Faith. Often times this leads to individuals experiencing an enormous amount of pain and spiritual upheaval. This happens only when we refuse to give up our own inclinations and ideas. They take a misplaced sense of refuge in going back to saying they believe in Baha’u'llah or whatever. That doesn’t cut in in this dispensation. This whole religion is about unity and yielding the individual perception to that of the actions of the group.

    If we are just supposed to passively accept everything that these people say to do ON BLIND FAITH, then why did Baha’u'llah give the rank and file of His system THE VOTE? If we are not supposed to ever use prayerful critical thinking in the Baha’i Faith then why do we have THE VOTE?

    Baquia, I regret often when I reply with my head here because it so often is corrupted by my personality and its flaws. I have a sharp tounge and I am sorry. If I seem combative, its for good reason. I will continue to practice my honey dispensing.

    When I read these clearly politically motivated and influenced opinions seated in liberal ideology I understand the consequences of such routes and where they will eventually lead…Rarely is it toward Faith in God.

    If you leave here, I will follow you and join your blog so I can keep getting some good film ideas. The Middle Eastern “I am the center of the Universe” mindset may just be the NEXT BIG THING in comedy. “Religious” discussion groups could well be gold mines for some new script ideas.

    Here are some more trailers on “You Don’t Mess With The Zohan” – In Theaters June 6th!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijTgHhJC5k0&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rQiEUHOmYc&feature=related

    Everyone keep posting. This place is a gold mine for the new Middle Eastern mentality comedy stylings.

    You people may get me to Hollywood and Vine yet!

  • Craig Parke

    [quote comment="52125"]

    anonymouz wrote:

    Craig: You keep making references to individuals House members which means nothing to me, nor should it to you.

    [/quote]

    Sorry. I disagree. I hold these people personally responsible for what comes out of their hapless mouths. Especially when a thoughtless public comment of a major figure in the AO destroys a very successful 12 year teaching project I had going.

    Unquestioned devotion and acceptance. Do I always understand it? No. `God will verily inspire them with whatsoever He willeth’.

    God has apparently inspired these men to COMPLETELY DESTROY the Baha’i Faith. And they are doing a damn good job of it!

    These opinions and efforts to use independent investigation of truth, if done in the spirit they were intended and with a solid foundation grounded in spiritual understandings, would eventually lead back to the realization that one can never completely understand the reasons or nature of perceived realities. It always comes back to personal interpretation, backed up with more human reasoning or understanding. this is where we enter Faith…

    Questioning or complaining about the UHJ decisions in counterproductive and runs against the grain of the very nature and essence of what it means to have Faith. Often times this leads to individuals experiencing an enormous amount of pain and spiritual upheaval. This happens only when we refuse to give up our own inclinations and ideas. They take a misplaced sense of refuge in going back to saying they believe in Baha’u'llah or whatever. That doesn’t cut in in this dispensation. This whole religion is about unity and yielding the individual perception to that of the actions of the group.

    If we are just supposed to passively accept everything that these people say to do ON BLIND FAITH, then why did Baha’u'llah give the rank and file of His system THE VOTE? If we are not supposed to ever use prayerful critical thinking in the Baha’i Faith then why do we have THE VOTE?

    Baquia, I regret often when I reply with my head here because it so often is corrupted by my personality and its flaws. I have a sharp tounge and I am sorry. If I seem combative, its for good reason. I will continue to practice my honey dispensing.

    When I read these clearly politically motivated and influenced opinions seated in liberal ideology I understand the consequences of such routes and where they will eventually lead…Rarely is it toward Faith in God.

    If you leave here, I will follow you and join your blog so I can keep getting some good film ideas. The Middle Eastern “I am the center of the Universe” mindset may just be the NEXT BIG THING in comedy. “Religious” discussion groups could well be gold mines for some new script ideas.

    Here are some more trailers on “You Don’t Mess With The Zohan” – In Theaters June 6th!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijTgHhJC5k0&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rQiEUHOmYc&feature=related

    Everyone keep posting. This place is a gold mine for the new Middle Eastern mentality comedy stylings.

    You people may get me to Hollywood and Vine yet!

  • Bird

    Such Bahai love in here… This forum is a mirco example of the whole Bahai world… trust me you all got plenty of challenges starting with the name – Bahai… while looking through some of your writings yesterday, again thanks Baquia for the lingering interest in the BF, I came across this passage, from the source, as you say…

    Bahá’u’lláh especially emphasized international peace. He declared that all mankind is the one progeny of Adam and members of one great universal family. If the various races and distinct types of mankind had each proceeded from a different original paternity—in other words, if we had two or more Adams for our human fathers—there might be reasonable ground for difference and divergence in humanity today; but inasmuch as we belong to one progeny and one family, all names which seek to differentiate and distinguish mankind as Italian, German, French, Russian and so on are without significance and sanction. We are all human, all servants of God and all come from Mr. Adam’s family. Why, then, all these fallacious national and racial distinctions? These boundary lines and artificial barriers have been created by despots and conquerors who sought to attain dominion over mankind, thereby engendering patriotic feeling and rousing selfish devotion to merely local standards of government. As a rule they themselves enjoyed luxuries in palaces, surrounded by conditions of ease and affluence, while armies of soldiers, civilians and tillers of the soil fought and died at their command upon the field of battle, shedding their innocent blood for a delusion such as “we are Germans,” “our enemies are French,” etc., when, in reality, all are humankind, all belong to the one family and posterity of Adam, the original father. This prejudice or limited patriotism is prevalent throughout the world, while man is blind to patriotism in the larger sense which includes all races and native lands. From every real standpoint there must and should be peace among all nations. Paris Talks

    ….Pretty interesting on how the stuff backfires on the BF seeing that the Bahai’s are shedding thier innocent blood for the delusion that are “Bahai”…. while the leaders pick out marble for the palace… such irony for sure…

  • Bird

    Such Bahai love in here… This forum is a mirco example of the whole Bahai world… trust me you all got plenty of challenges starting with the name – Bahai… while looking through some of your writings yesterday, again thanks Baquia for the lingering interest in the BF, I came across this passage, from the source, as you say…

    Bahá’u’lláh especially emphasized international peace. He declared that all mankind is the one progeny of Adam and members of one great universal family. If the various races and distinct types of mankind had each proceeded from a different original paternity—in other words, if we had two or more Adams for our human fathers—there might be reasonable ground for difference and divergence in humanity today; but inasmuch as we belong to one progeny and one family, all names which seek to differentiate and distinguish mankind as Italian, German, French, Russian and so on are without significance and sanction. We are all human, all servants of God and all come from Mr. Adam’s family. Why, then, all these fallacious national and racial distinctions? These boundary lines and artificial barriers have been created by despots and conquerors who sought to attain dominion over mankind, thereby engendering patriotic feeling and rousing selfish devotion to merely local standards of government. As a rule they themselves enjoyed luxuries in palaces, surrounded by conditions of ease and affluence, while armies of soldiers, civilians and tillers of the soil fought and died at their command upon the field of battle, shedding their innocent blood for a delusion such as “we are Germans,” “our enemies are French,” etc., when, in reality, all are humankind, all belong to the one family and posterity of Adam, the original father. This prejudice or limited patriotism is prevalent throughout the world, while man is blind to patriotism in the larger sense which includes all races and native lands. From every real standpoint there must and should be peace among all nations. Paris Talks

    ….Pretty interesting on how the stuff backfires on the BF seeing that the Bahai’s are shedding thier innocent blood for the delusion that are “Bahai”…. while the leaders pick out marble for the palace… such irony for sure…

  • Grover

    [quote post="497"]….Pretty interesting on how the stuff backfires on the BF seeing that the Bahai’s are shedding thier innocent blood for the delusion that are “Bahai”…. while the leaders pick out marble for the palace… such irony for sure…[/quote]

    Bird! You cut right to the bone :)

  • Grover

    [quote post="497"]….Pretty interesting on how the stuff backfires on the BF seeing that the Bahai’s are shedding thier innocent blood for the delusion that are “Bahai”…. while the leaders pick out marble for the palace… such irony for sure…[/quote]

    Bird! You cut right to the bone :)

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    Wow. I just noticed that this post has almost 170 comments. That has to be some sort of record. No wonder the php code was starting to creak. Hopefully no one will mind closing further comments for performance sake. I assume that we’ve hashed out things fairly well, or at least as well as we can in a dialogue that spans 170 comments or so. Please feel free to visit other posts and add your comments. I look forward to hearing from you.
    Allah’u'Abha everyone.

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    Wow. I just noticed that this post has almost 170 comments. That has to be some sort of record. No wonder the php code was starting to creak. Hopefully no one will mind closing further comments for performance sake. I assume that we’ve hashed out things fairly well, or at least as well as we can in a dialogue that spans 170 comments or so. Please feel free to visit other posts and add your comments. I look forward to hearing from you.
    Allah’u'Abha everyone.

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