Comments on: BBC: Around the World in 80 Faiths – Baha’i Faith http://bahairants.com/bbc-around-the-world-in-80-faiths-bahai-faith-590.html A Baha'i blog. Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:12:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Baquia http://bahairants.com/bbc-around-the-world-in-80-faiths-bahai-faith-590.html/comment-page-1#comment-62887 Baquia Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:01:54 +0000 http://bahairants.com/around-the-world-in-80-faiths-bahai-590.html#comment-62887 Thanks for sharing Eric. We could use more of your level-headedness 'round these parts. Thanks for sharing Eric. We could use more of your level-headedness 'round these parts.

]]> By: Baquia http://bahairants.com/bbc-around-the-world-in-80-faiths-bahai-faith-590.html/comment-page-1#comment-81117 Baquia Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:01:00 +0000 http://bahairants.com/around-the-world-in-80-faiths-bahai-590.html#comment-81117 Thanks for sharing Eric. We could use more of your level-headedness 'round these parts. Thanks for sharing Eric. We could use more of your level-headedness 'round these parts.

]]> By: farhan http://bahairants.com/bbc-around-the-world-in-80-faiths-bahai-faith-590.html/comment-page-1#comment-62178 farhan Mon, 23 Feb 2009 09:08:46 +0000 http://bahairants.com/around-the-world-in-80-faiths-bahai-590.html#comment-62178 Baha’is are concentrating on preparing the coming world order, starting with the spiritualization of our own neighbourhood, instead of running around and speaking up” at Don Quichotte... Time will show who was right. If you look carefully, the blue-print is actually working wonders. We are already plenty pulling down the old world order; it is good time we specialised, don’t you think? Demolishers for who wish to demolish, builders for those who wish to build. Baha’is are concentrating on preparing the coming world order, starting with the spiritualization of our own neighbourhood, instead of running around and speaking up” at Don Quichotte… Time will show who was right. If you look carefully, the blue-print is actually working wonders. We are already plenty pulling down the old world order; it is good time we specialised, don’t you think? Demolishers for who wish to demolish, builders for those who wish to build.

]]> By: farhan http://bahairants.com/bbc-around-the-world-in-80-faiths-bahai-faith-590.html/comment-page-1#comment-81116 farhan Mon, 23 Feb 2009 09:08:00 +0000 http://bahairants.com/around-the-world-in-80-faiths-bahai-590.html#comment-81116 Baha’is are concentrating on preparing the coming world order, starting with the spiritualization of our own neighbourhood, instead of running around and speaking up” at Don Quichotte... Time will show who was right. If you look carefully, the blue-print is actually working wonders. We are already plenty pulling down the old world order; it is good time we specialised, don’t you think? Demolishers for who wish to demolish, builders for those who wish to build. Baha’is are concentrating on preparing the coming world order, starting with the spiritualization of our own neighbourhood, instead of running around and speaking up” at Don Quichotte… Time will show who was right. If you look carefully, the blue-print is actually working wonders. We are already plenty pulling down the old world order; it is good time we specialised, don’t you think? Demolishers for who wish to demolish, builders for those who wish to build.

]]> By: farhan http://bahairants.com/bbc-around-the-world-in-80-faiths-bahai-faith-590.html/comment-page-1#comment-62177 farhan Mon, 23 Feb 2009 08:52:12 +0000 http://bahairants.com/around-the-world-in-80-faiths-bahai-590.html#comment-62177 Eric wrote: "to become a Baha’i, you don’t even have to give up your existing religion...." he is incorrect. Well Eric in a sense, you are right, but when we look closer, we see that the Baha'i faith accepts the essential part of all previous religions, even though a Baha'i does not apply the rituals and traditions of these religions. Even though I do not go to communion, I do consider myself as Christian as any Christian can be. Eric wrote: "to become a Baha’i, you don’t even have to give up your existing religion…." he is incorrect.

Well Eric in a sense, you are right, but when we look closer, we see that the Baha'i faith accepts the essential part of all previous religions, even though a Baha'i does not apply the rituals and traditions of these religions. Even though I do not go to communion, I do consider myself as Christian as any Christian can be.

]]> By: farhan http://bahairants.com/bbc-around-the-world-in-80-faiths-bahai-faith-590.html/comment-page-1#comment-81115 farhan Mon, 23 Feb 2009 08:52:00 +0000 http://bahairants.com/around-the-world-in-80-faiths-bahai-590.html#comment-81115 Eric wrote: "to become a Baha’i, you don’t even have to give up your existing religion...." he is incorrect. Well Eric in a sense, you are right, but when we look closer, we see that the Baha'i faith accepts the essential part of all previous religions, even though a Baha'i does not apply the rituals and traditions of these religions. Even though I do not go to communion, I do consider myself as Christian as any Christian can be. Eric wrote: "to become a Baha’i, you don’t even have to give up your existing religion…." he is incorrect.

Well Eric in a sense, you are right, but when we look closer, we see that the Baha'i faith accepts the essential part of all previous religions, even though a Baha'i does not apply the rituals and traditions of these religions. Even though I do not go to communion, I do consider myself as Christian as any Christian can be.

]]> By: farhan http://bahairants.com/bbc-around-the-world-in-80-faiths-bahai-faith-590.html/comment-page-1#comment-62176 farhan Mon, 23 Feb 2009 08:47:48 +0000 http://bahairants.com/around-the-world-in-80-faiths-bahai-590.html#comment-62176 I agree, Matt; in Abdu’l-Baha in London, the Master clearly says that we can belong to other churches and be Baha'is at the same time, but once again, this underlines the idea that as the community grows, its structure must change and gain complexity and what was required at the time of Abdu'l-Baha is no longer so now and Abdu’l-Baha clearly required us to abide by the rulings of the UHJ, as He announced He would have done himself, had this institution been elected during is life-time, as He had wished. I agree, Matt; in Abdu’l-Baha in London, the Master clearly says that we can belong to other churches and be Baha'is at the same time, but once again, this underlines the idea that as the community grows, its structure must change and gain complexity and what was required at the time of Abdu'l-Baha is no longer so now and Abdu’l-Baha clearly required us to abide by the rulings of the UHJ, as He announced He would have done himself, had this institution been elected during is life-time, as He had wished.

]]> By: farhan http://bahairants.com/bbc-around-the-world-in-80-faiths-bahai-faith-590.html/comment-page-1#comment-81114 farhan Mon, 23 Feb 2009 08:47:00 +0000 http://bahairants.com/around-the-world-in-80-faiths-bahai-590.html#comment-81114 I agree, Matt; in Abdu’l-Baha in London, the Master clearly says that we can belong to other churches and be Baha'is at the same time, but once again, this underlines the idea that as the community grows, its structure must change and gain complexity and what was required at the time of Abdu'l-Baha is no longer so now and Abdu’l-Baha clearly required us to abide by the rulings of the UHJ, as He announced He would have done himself, had this institution been elected during is life-time, as He had wished. I agree, Matt; in Abdu’l-Baha in London, the Master clearly says that we can belong to other churches and be Baha'is at the same time, but once again, this underlines the idea that as the community grows, its structure must change and gain complexity and what was required at the time of Abdu'l-Baha is no longer so now and Abdu’l-Baha clearly required us to abide by the rulings of the UHJ, as He announced He would have done himself, had this institution been elected during is life-time, as He had wished.

]]> By: Eric Hadley-Ives http://bahairants.com/bbc-around-the-world-in-80-faiths-bahai-faith-590.html/comment-page-1#comment-62149 Eric Hadley-Ives Sat, 21 Feb 2009 04:40:58 +0000 http://bahairants.com/around-the-world-in-80-faiths-bahai-590.html#comment-62149 Great post, and I've enjoyed the dialogue between Farhan and Craig. I think Farhan expresses what is best in the current Baha'i culture and Craig expresses what is worst, and I see truth in both of their viewpoints. The post says: “the followers of the Baha’i Faith have built a garden at the shrine of their prophet, known as the Bab…” Without meaning to quibble over details, this is also incorrect.... Well, you know, I guess, that you are quibbling over details. The Gate is "our" prophet as much as any other Messenger of God. There are so few Babis these days, that, as a pragmatic matter, on a superficial level, you might as well say that Ali Muhammad Al Shirazi Bab Al Din is one of our prophets. And those gardens where he was walking around are in fact near the Shrine of the Bab, and not at Bahji, right? You also point out that when Peter Owen Jones says, "to become a Baha’i, you don’t even have to give up your existing religion...." he is incorrect. Well sure, you're technically correct about that in most cases, if you mean official membership or something like that. But I think if you look at conversion narratives (or at least my conversion narrative), many Baha'is do experience the Faith as a belief-and-practice system that requires very little or no rejection of their previous religion. Coming from a liberal United Methodist upbringing, the only theological aspects I had to abandon were those I had trouble believing anyway, so I did not feel I was really "leaving" liberal mainstream Protestant Christianity so much as adding Baha'i on top of my religious foundation, or recognizing that the foundation was universal in all religions, including Baha'i. Didn't someone once even do a study of conversion in India demonstrating that many new Baha'i converts just saw recognition of Baha'u'llah as adding a new avatar to the list of God's manifestations? I think then, in a practical and non-technical sense, Peter Owen Jones is probably correct. Aside from changing membership registration (a fairly meaningless thing for many of us anyway), most new Baha'is do not perceive themselves as "giving up" their previous religion. Hey, your blog is always fun. Sorry I don't have time to post more comments. - Eric Great post, and I've enjoyed the dialogue between Farhan and Craig. I think Farhan expresses what is best in the current Baha'i culture and Craig expresses what is worst, and I see truth in both of their viewpoints.

The post says:
“the followers of the Baha’i Faith have built a garden at the shrine of their prophet, known as the Bab…” Without meaning to quibble over details, this is also incorrect….

Well, you know, I guess, that you are quibbling over details. The Gate is "our" prophet as much as any other Messenger of God. There are so few Babis these days, that, as a pragmatic matter, on a superficial level, you might as well say that Ali Muhammad Al Shirazi Bab Al Din is one of our prophets. And those gardens where he was walking around are in fact near the Shrine of the Bab, and not at Bahji, right?

You also point out that when Peter Owen Jones says, "to become a Baha’i, you don’t even have to give up your existing religion…." he is incorrect. Well sure, you're technically correct about that in most cases, if you mean official membership or something like that. But I think if you look at conversion narratives (or at least my conversion narrative), many Baha'is do experience the Faith as a belief-and-practice system that requires very little or no rejection of their previous religion. Coming from a liberal United Methodist upbringing, the only theological aspects I had to abandon were those I had trouble believing anyway, so I did not feel I was really "leaving" liberal mainstream Protestant Christianity so much as adding Baha'i on top of my religious foundation, or recognizing that the foundation was universal in all religions, including Baha'i. Didn't someone once even do a study of conversion in India demonstrating that many new Baha'i converts just saw recognition of Baha'u'llah as adding a new avatar to the list of God's manifestations? I think then, in a practical and non-technical sense, Peter Owen Jones is probably correct. Aside from changing membership registration (a fairly meaningless thing for many of us anyway), most new Baha'is do not perceive themselves as "giving up" their previous religion.

Hey, your blog is always fun. Sorry I don't have time to post more comments.

– Eric

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