Bill Davis Comment On UHJ April 19th Letter

Bill Davis at the US National Convention asking the delegates to bury the NSA’s own letter and instead focus the attention of Baha’is on the UHJ’s letter:

What is this all about?

US NSA Annual Report – Ridvan 2007

House of Justice Letter April 19 2007 – Response To NSA US

Counsellor Rebequa Murphy’s Comment At Convention

bill-davis-nsa
Mr. William E. Davis
Former Chairperson
National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha’is of the United States of America

  • Steve

    I can’t believe she actually said that. Perhaps she was just improvising and that came out of her mouth. I’m willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, unless she actually believes that. Then it only confirms all of my concerns of the Administrative Order. Sometimes it pays to be paranoid.

  • Steve

    I can’t believe she actually said that. Perhaps she was just improvising and that came out of her mouth. I’m willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, unless she actually believes that. Then it only confirms all of my concerns of the Administrative Order. Sometimes it pays to be paranoid.

  • Brendan Cook

    Steve,

    I’ve heard it, and you can hear the file yourself. Counsellor Murphy doesn’t just say that we don’t want to see God with our own eyes or hear His melody with our own ears. She also makes it evident she’s not being sarcastic by following this up with the declaration that we’ve been given the gift of being able to see things through the eyes of the House of Justice. *If* she were being sarcastic, it would be at the expense of the House, something like “we don’t need to see for ourselves because the House can see for us.” But she wasn’t sarcastic.

    And it’s fine to give her the benefit of the doubt, that’s always a good thing. But then we should also give Sen McGlinn the benefit of the doubt about the “Baha’i Theologian” passage in the introduction to *Church and State*. What isn’t fair is that when people go out of their way to accommodate what some people say and pounce on others. I’m not saying you’re doing that though, but the people who condemn Sen and not Counselor Murphy seem to me to be doing that.

    Brendan

  • Brendan Cook

    Steve,

    I’ve heard it, and you can hear the file yourself. Counsellor Murphy doesn’t just say that we don’t want to see God with our own eyes or hear His melody with our own ears. She also makes it evident she’s not being sarcastic by following this up with the declaration that we’ve been given the gift of being able to see things through the eyes of the House of Justice. *If* she were being sarcastic, it would be at the expense of the House, something like “we don’t need to see for ourselves because the House can see for us.” But she wasn’t sarcastic.

    And it’s fine to give her the benefit of the doubt, that’s always a good thing. But then we should also give Sen McGlinn the benefit of the doubt about the “Baha’i Theologian” passage in the introduction to *Church and State*. What isn’t fair is that when people go out of their way to accommodate what some people say and pounce on others. I’m not saying you’re doing that though, but the people who condemn Sen and not Counselor Murphy seem to me to be doing that.

    Brendan

  • Steve

    I ended up hearing the file shortly after posting that comment, it was shocking not because of the attitude she displayed. That’s the common attitude among the Administrative Order itself. It is unyielding and uncompromising. I don’t blame It for that, actually. I just won’t participate in and uphold it. I had the vision of a world where Institutions and people did not need to defend their beliefs, and just simply be. It is apparent that the Baha’i Institutions want more than to just simply be. They want to defend Itself from opponents of all sides. Again, I think that is natural. I just feel there has to be some better way. One risks becoming autocratic and authoritarian when the fear of loss enters the equation. The fact that she said what she said almost sounds prophetic. It is almost as if God put those words in her mouth to demonstrate how a person literally reversed the meaning of Scripture, word for word, and still have people defend them for it. It’s as if words have no value in of themselves anymore.

  • Steve

    I ended up hearing the file shortly after posting that comment, it was shocking not because of the attitude she displayed. That’s the common attitude among the Administrative Order itself. It is unyielding and uncompromising. I don’t blame It for that, actually. I just won’t participate in and uphold it. I had the vision of a world where Institutions and people did not need to defend their beliefs, and just simply be. It is apparent that the Baha’i Institutions want more than to just simply be. They want to defend Itself from opponents of all sides. Again, I think that is natural. I just feel there has to be some better way. One risks becoming autocratic and authoritarian when the fear of loss enters the equation. The fact that she said what she said almost sounds prophetic. It is almost as if God put those words in her mouth to demonstrate how a person literally reversed the meaning of Scripture, word for word, and still have people defend them for it. It’s as if words have no value in of themselves anymore.

  • Craig Parke

    “It’s as if words have no value in of themselves anymore.”

    BINGO Steve!

    I have been a Baha’i for 36 years. We are all down the rabbit hole now.

    The Central Figures taught the primacy of sacred individual human conscience. The current people at the top of the AO don’t. Every Baha’i must now turn their souls over to them for detailed personal guidance on every aspect of life and human existence. Period.

    The Central Figures taught the primacy of many meanings in every word of sacred scripture at many levels reflecting the many rays of Divine Light at every level of development and advancement in a human soul. The people who wrote the top down “Ruhi Full Sequence of Courses” strictly forbid that level of insight ever coming into play in any discussion. Period.

    Anyone who thinks on their own outside of the authorized top down group think is now the enemy of God.

    It is an incredible tragedy because if the Faith was now going by what the Central Figures ACTUALLY TAUGHT, it would be one of the truly empowered spiritual tickets on Earth and could be incredibly successful.

    The Baha’i Faith once was thought to be anti-war and for World Peace. Now how do you go up to a U.S. Iraq or Afghan veteran who has lost both arms and both legs in war and say to him Glenford Mitchell’s words in 2001 just after the terrible tragedy of 9/11 “So when you see the U.S. in Cambodia or in Vietnam — or when you see America’s young men in Lebanon, or knocking around in the Balkans — ‘PLEASE, WILL YOU BE QUIET AND LET GOD TO HIS WORK!’”

    I am a military veteran of the Vietnam War Era and I joined the Baha’i Faith in 1971 and served it with everything I had all these years because I thought it was for World Peace. It isn’t. Glenford Mitchell’s cynical statement is an insult to every veteran who ever wept from the pain and anguish of war.

    The wheels are falling off. I know many who have left in utter disgust, anger, and rage. The Tablet of the Holy Mariner as Baha’u’llah foretold is now in effect Big Time.

    Divine Judgment has come.

  • Craig Parke

    “It’s as if words have no value in of themselves anymore.”

    BINGO Steve!

    I have been a Baha’i for 36 years. We are all down the rabbit hole now.

    The Central Figures taught the primacy of sacred individual human conscience. The current people at the top of the AO don’t. Every Baha’i must now turn their souls over to them for detailed personal guidance on every aspect of life and human existence. Period.

    The Central Figures taught the primacy of many meanings in every word of sacred scripture at many levels reflecting the many rays of Divine Light at every level of development and advancement in a human soul. The people who wrote the top down “Ruhi Full Sequence of Courses” strictly forbid that level of insight ever coming into play in any discussion. Period.

    Anyone who thinks on their own outside of the authorized top down group think is now the enemy of God.

    It is an incredible tragedy because if the Faith was now going by what the Central Figures ACTUALLY TAUGHT, it would be one of the truly empowered spiritual tickets on Earth and could be incredibly successful.

    The Baha’i Faith once was thought to be anti-war and for World Peace. Now how do you go up to a U.S. Iraq or Afghan veteran who has lost both arms and both legs in war and say to him Glenford Mitchell’s words in 2001 just after the terrible tragedy of 9/11 “So when you see the U.S. in Cambodia or in Vietnam — or when you see America’s young men in Lebanon, or knocking around in the Balkans — ‘PLEASE, WILL YOU BE QUIET AND LET GOD TO HIS WORK!’”

    I am a military veteran of the Vietnam War Era and I joined the Baha’i Faith in 1971 and served it with everything I had all these years because I thought it was for World Peace. It isn’t. Glenford Mitchell’s cynical statement is an insult to every veteran who ever wept from the pain and anguish of war.

    The wheels are falling off. I know many who have left in utter disgust, anger, and rage. The Tablet of the Holy Mariner as Baha’u’llah foretold is now in effect Big Time.

    Divine Judgment has come.

  • Sarmad

    I’ve carefully considered your words here and concluded that they are nonsense.  Your portrayal of the Administrative Order is complete nonsense.  I can’t say anything about Glenford Mitchell because I haven’t looked into it.  But as far as I am concerned, “who is he?”  He could say ‘the moon’s a balloon’ and it would mean…what??  There are many, many instances where members of the UHJ have said things that are, for want of a better word, fallible.  I found some of the things I heard Taherzadeh say fairly stupid, in fact once inexcusably stupid.  So what?  The members of the House are ELECTED!!!!!!!  When will you people realise this?  We can, if we wish, use our votes and change things.  We do not equate the members with the institution.  If we do so then we are behaving pathetically.   Please don’t reply as I will not be looking at this site ever again after this evening.  But I am not fooled by your persona, I’m afraid.

  • Fubar

     Sar-Mad,

    Your ideas are irrational and silly, and a perfect reflection of the
    brainwashing and groupthink that has “infected” haifan bahaism and made
    it a dysfunctional religion full of empty promises.

    haifan bahaism is culturally imperialistic and exploits the people that are converted to it.People do not elect the UHJ members, they are effectively “appointed” by bahai administration through a corrupt process.You inability to openly discuss the need for bahai reform is a perfect example of the insularized, cowardly posture of people that “defend” haifan bahaism.