follow up / clarification:

http://www.bahai-faith.com/

—excerpt—

…
Beyond the Baha’i Faith: “Manifestations of God”
…

Baha’is believe that only the founders of the great religions are Manifestations of God, but that all other humans are mere servants. I disagree. I think all humans fall on a continuum of spiritual development, rather than being divided neatly into categories of “Manifestations” of the divine attributes or “Non-Manifestations”.

All human beings are manifestations of divinity, because we were all created in the image of God and we are all God’s children. This teaching is found in the Old Testament, the New Testament, and in the writings of many modern spiritual leaders. The Baha’i Faith draws an ontological distinction between Manifestations of God and regular human beings, but there is no such distinction. There may be a small number of people whose special role in history was to found religions, but they were imperfect and fallible like all other humans. All humans are on a journey which begins when one’s eternal spirit is birthed from the Womb of God, comes to earth in a physical body, and continues after death in other lifetimes and/or other dimensions of existence as we grow from spiritual infancy through stages of childhood, adolescence, and eventually adulthood. Given enough ages for development, everyone will ultimately reach the level of great spiritual masters such as Jesus, Buddha, etc. Even Jesus himself promised this! (see Luke 6:40).

—end—

And here is what it says in Luke 6:40

[Luke 6 starts with a discussion of narrow, literal interpretation of previous religious law vs. following the broader spirit of the law. Jesus performs a healing miracle on the Sabbeth and offends the priests. He than retreats to pray, and upon returning, addresses his apostles and the masses, praising the downtrodden and oppressed, and warning the fortunate and favored. He says to turn the other cheek, give to the needy, treat others as you would expect to be treated.]

—excerpt—

[6] 39 And He also spoke a parable to them:

“A blind man cannot guide a blind man, can he? Will they not
both fall into a pit?

[6] 40

“A pupil is not above his teacher; but everyone, after he has
been fully trained, will be like his teacher. ”
. . .

[6] 46

“Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
. . .

—end—

That is certainly a provocative section of the bible, but since I’m not a Christian, and have not studied the bible much, I do not know if there are other sections of the bible that contradict Luke 6:40.

Bye!

follow up / clarification:

http://www.bahai-faith.com/

—excerpt—

…
Beyond the Baha’i Faith: “Manifestations of God”
…

Baha’is believe that only the founders of the great religions are Manifestations of God, but that all other humans are mere servants. I disagree. I think all humans fall on a continuum of spiritual development, rather than being divided neatly into categories of “Manifestations” of the divine attributes or “Non-Manifestations”.

All human beings are manifestations of divinity, because we were all created in the image of God and we are all God’s children. This teaching is found in the Old Testament, the New Testament, and in the writings of many modern spiritual leaders. The Baha’i Faith draws an ontological distinction between Manifestations of God and regular human beings, but there is no such distinction. There may be a small number of people whose special role in history was to found religions, but they were imperfect and fallible like all other humans. All humans are on a journey which begins when one’s eternal spirit is birthed from the Womb of God, comes to earth in a physical body, and continues after death in other lifetimes and/or other dimensions of existence as we grow from spiritual infancy through stages of childhood, adolescence, and eventually adulthood. Given enough ages for development, everyone will ultimately reach the level of great spiritual masters such as Jesus, Buddha, etc. Even Jesus himself promised this! (see Luke 6:40).

—end—

And here is what it says in Luke 6:40

[Luke 6 starts with a discussion of narrow, literal interpretation of previous religious law vs. following the broader spirit of the law. Jesus performs a healing miracle on the Sabbeth and offends the priests. He than retreats to pray, and upon returning, addresses his apostles and the masses, praising the downtrodden and oppressed, and warning the fortunate and favored. He says to turn the other cheek, give to the needy, treat others as you would expect to be treated.]

—excerpt—

[6] 39 And He also spoke a parable to them:

“A blind man cannot guide a blind man, can he? Will they not
both fall into a pit?

[6] 40

“A pupil is not above his teacher; but everyone, after he has
been fully trained, will be like his teacher. ”
. . .

[6] 46

“Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
. . .

—end—

That is certainly a provocative section of the bible, but since I’m not a Christian, and have not studied the bible much, I do not know if there are other sections of the bible that contradict Luke 6:40.

Bye!

Loren,

I support what P, Steve and Bird said. Also……

Eric Stetson has said more truth in one blog than a lot of (conformist) bahais will ever know in their lives.

As noted above(?) in this blog, Mr. Stetson cites a very interesting section of the bible where Jesus seems to say that prophetology/manifestationology isn’t needed. This is enormously liberating. Outmoded metaphysics needed thousands of years in primitive cultures can be tossed out when they are no longer needed, or no longer explain emergent phenomena with sufficient authenticity.

Once “progressive relevation” is seen as an outmoded metaphysical construct, a spiritual security blanket, peolpe can move on to more mature psychological models of spiritual development.

The sad reality is that bahai is full of backward ideas, and they can’t easily be abandoned by the “true believers”. As a result, the religion tends to become dysfunctional as its internal “logic” unravels, a lack of accountability sets in, and so forth.

Eric Stetson was brave enough to leave all the bahai junk behind and look for something better.

I found his web site to be interesting and unusual, and was glad to have read about it on this blog.

[quote comment="60529"][quote comment=""][...] Archives

« Eric Stetson: An Apology to the Baha’is [...][/quote]
Of course you don’t believe you’re being deceptive. Hey, I never accused you of being Captain Obvious!
…
[/quote]

Loren,

I support what P, Steve and Bird said. Also……

Eric Stetson has said more truth in one blog than a lot of (conformist) bahais will ever know in their lives.

As noted above(?) in this blog, Mr. Stetson cites a very interesting section of the bible where Jesus seems to say that prophetology/manifestationology isn’t needed. This is enormously liberating. Outmoded metaphysics needed thousands of years in primitive cultures can be tossed out when they are no longer needed, or no longer explain emergent phenomena with sufficient authenticity.

Once “progressive relevation” is seen as an outmoded metaphysical construct, a spiritual security blanket, peolpe can move on to more mature psychological models of spiritual development.

The sad reality is that bahai is full of backward ideas, and they can’t easily be abandoned by the “true believers”. As a result, the religion tends to become dysfunctional as its internal “logic” unravels, a lack of accountability sets in, and so forth.

Eric Stetson was brave enough to leave all the bahai junk behind and look for something better.

I found his web site to be interesting and unusual, and was glad to have read about it on this blog.

[quote comment="60529"][quote comment=""][...] Archives

« Eric Stetson: An Apology to the Baha’is [...][/quote]
Of course you don’t believe you’re being deceptive. Hey, I never accused you of being Captain Obvious!
…
[/quote]

Bird

Bird

To you both, I posted earlier that the truth is better then fiction in the sense that I read the actual contradictions in the writings themselves to choose to leave the BF, pages like Eric’s would have no effect on me what-so-ever, it is obvious it is his page representing his ideas.

However the truths within the revelation of Baha’u’llah and what is available through approved sites will teach anyone anything they want to know. About the only thing I have found not in the approved sited that should be in them are the Ruth White documents on the BF filed in the 1930’s. Shoghi Effendi’s signature is on the documents so why not list it as a real life battle between two brains and show the efforts of the battle and the truth in how it was won.

I left the BF because I would have been kicked out and called a CB because if there is any validity in the myth called God, then I believe there is a high probability that Baha’u’llah was given divine words to share with the world, however I stop at the writings of Baha’u’llah and dabble in Abdul Baha to the point of his LWT. Past that is all about making money, obtaining power and manipulating hearts.

I don’t have the energy nor the inclination like Eric to post my views to others about how I feel about the BF on my on website. In my case it’s quite embarrassing. And besides that, with Baquia doing such a great job with this site, why try to outdo perfection?

Bird

To you both, I posted earlier that the truth is better then fiction in the sense that I read the actual contradictions in the writings themselves to choose to leave the BF, pages like Eric’s would have no effect on me what-so-ever, it is obvious it is his page representing his ideas.

However the truths within the revelation of Baha’u’llah and what is available through approved sites will teach anyone anything they want to know. About the only thing I have found not in the approved sited that should be in them are the Ruth White documents on the BF filed in the 1930’s. Shoghi Effendi’s signature is on the documents so why not list it as a real life battle between two brains and show the efforts of the battle and the truth in how it was won.

I left the BF because I would have been kicked out and called a CB because if there is any validity in the myth called God, then I believe there is a high probability that Baha’u’llah was given divine words to share with the world, however I stop at the writings of Baha’u’llah and dabble in Abdul Baha to the point of his LWT. Past that is all about making money, obtaining power and manipulating hearts.

I don’t have the energy nor the inclination like Eric to post my views to others about how I feel about the BF on my on website. In my case it’s quite embarrassing. And besides that, with Baquia doing such a great job with this site, why try to outdo perfection?

Bird

P’s comment above answers your charge of me being “deceptive” — I need not add anything to that. I am curious, however, about a couple of things you mentioned:

– “Stetsonism” and “your ism”: I wasn’t aware that I have created a whole new ism. What do you see as the hallmarks of Stetsonism? Are you worried that this new ism, if in fact it exists, could eventually become as significant as Baha’ism, perhaps a competitor to it? Why or why not?

– You said that you had asked me to “provide some Bible teachings on honesty but you didn’t.” I can’t find this request in your previous comment. Do you see the irony here?

I will conclude with a thought of my own for you to reflect upon. One of the main purposes of my Bahai-Faith.com website is to encourage people who are studying and considering the Baha’i Faith to look at both the positive and the negative aspects of this religion and think about it from various sides and angles and points of view. In other words, I am trying to help people with their independent investigation of truth, by telling the story of my own independent investigation and where it led me in my spiritual journey. If the only information that’s available about the Baha’i Faith comes from Baha’is, then it would be very difficult for people to consider this religion objectively and make an informed decision about whether or not to be an adherent.