Hossain Danesh Heavily Promoted By NSA

Never let it be said that the NSA doesn’t take care of one of its own.

After losing his license to practice medicine in Ontario, due to several patients of his coming forward with allegations of sexual abuse, Hossain Danesh was protected by the NSA and given a plum job running Landegg Academy in Switzerland. That was a comfortable, out of the way posting. Especially since it allowed him to put the distance of half the world between himself and what had transpired recently.

Hossain Danesh

Hossain Danesh

Danesh then applied his considerable executive and managerial talent as Rector of Landegg Academy. The result? Landegg closed its doors in 2005 declaring bankruptcy. So Danesh headed back to Canada. Now that 16 years have passed, washing away most people’s memories, it seems that he is ready for his newest public incarnation. And he is being heavily promoted by the NSA.

Earlier this year Hossain Danesh started to give seminars on marriage and family life – akin to a pedophile priest giving a seminar on child rearing.

Apparently the NSA is kicking things into high gear with a string of high profile seminars planned around Canada to promote Danesh even further and reintroduce him to the community as a public figure. Soon Bahai Rants will begin to give odds on when Danesh will end up back on the NSA.

Hossain Danesh’s jam-packed schedule includes workshops on such topics as “Unity of Faith and Reason in Action” and one targeted specifically to youth: “Shaping Our Destiny: An Open Forum for Youth and Young Adults”.

There is also his usual type of workshop which is being promoted under the auspices of the Baha’i Marriage and Family Life Committee. There is no question that this has the full support and backing of the NSA of Canada, the institution that Danesh served on for many years before his fall from grace in 1994. The same institution that continues to have a healthy number of members that were his peers back then.

All this makes me wonder if within a few years Franco Ceccherini will be promoted by the Italian NSA to go around that country giving workshops and talks on the fund.

  • Pingback: Hossein Danesh Is Back | Baha'i Rants()

  • Guest

    It just goes to show that no institution is infallible, and even the people with the highest ideals will forsake those ideals when one of their own gets themselves into trouble.

    “Speak the truth, even against yourselves.” – Muhammad

  • Concourse on Low

    And these people think they’re the saviors of the world?

    Same ol’ corruption, same ol’ tribalism. The Baha’i Faith offers nothing new or innovative.

  • Craig Parke

    Amazing, amazing stuff. It just does not get any more dysfunctional than this. Every year there is some new level that raises the bar. Outstanding!

  • This blog of yours reminds me of just how important first, freedom of speech is (your reporting here is probably news to many Bahais) and from that comes civil discourse and the ability for the Bahai community to be in touch with society at large – in touch with issues such as justice and transparency.

    I am utterly shocked that someone who was convicted of sexual abuse in a professional court (someone correct me of the facts if I’ve remembered the conviction incorrectly) and then avoided a public court by making a settlement with the victims, is, as you demonstrate here, promoted by the Canadian N.S.A.

    For the victims, this would be a reminder that the crimes committed didn’t matter because for the Bahai community he is important. Here the Bahai community (here it is not just a few individuals but the N.S.A., that’s a sizable Bahai community) promotes individuals at public events on topics related to the crimes he committed – on family life – on sexuality.

    It doesn’t matter to me how ‘harmless’ or “good” his talks might be, because what this means is that the N.S.A. of Canada doesn’t care about the victims of his crimes.
    It makes a farce of the Bahai principle of justice and it seems to me very unwise.

  • Anonymous

    Sonja, Danesh was not convicted. He plead a deal with the Ontario College of Physicians and Surgeons who had brought forward charges of sexual impropriety. In the deal, they dropped the charges in exchange for his immediate written resignation and his promise never to re-apply to practice medicine in Ontario or anywhere else in the world. And he had to pay $10,000 towards the expenses of therapy for his three former patients. As far as I know there were no civil charges brought by the victims – I assume they didn’t want to go through the emotionally taxing and financially draining process of litigation.So technically he was not convicted but the deal he cut reeks of impropriety, if not criminality. When you have such a deep pool of talent within the Baha’i community, you have to stop and ask why someone like Danesh is being so heavily promoted. If he hadn’t been so plugged in to the “old boy network” would he be given the same red carpet treatment?When the charges were brought forward and when he cut the deal, he continued to a member of the NSA. That is, he was not censured nor removed by the NSA until he was given the new job posting in Switzerland.

  • Thanks for the correction and the information.
    I posted a link on my facebook wall and now there’s been a quite a debate. The biggest issue being that I’m told I’m resorting to tabloid tactics or I’m told I’m backbiting.
    It’s got me to thinking about why Bahais are so afraid of free speech. Of course, I know the Bahai ideal, as I understood it, was you bring any issue to an LSA and then it goes up to the NSA and so on, and justice or the right thing happens.

    However I was thinking that perhaps this idea of mine could never work anyway – because there’s no transparency and no accountability, so an individual would never know if their letter or issue was even considered or not. And the process could be halted along the way for all sorts of reasons.

    I do see a real value in having an open judicial system and perhaps secrecy and lack of transparency, was never part of Baha’u’llah’s plan to start with.

    Aside from this, what I see is are knee jerk like responses by Bahais, whereas if the situation had involved Catholics and priests, I’m sure Bahais would be all for making the issue known and would be all for justice. So I thought, it seems, a bigger problem is airing dissent.

    Bahais should be able to do this. Any society, Bahai included, should be able to allow disagreement, in other words, freedom of speech.

  • qwerty

    Not amazing. Just more hypocrisy and Orwellian dysfunction. Nothing to see here.

  • Anonymous

    Sonja, accusing a person of backbiting when they are saying something to which there is no defense (that is a truth) is a well known tactic. It is a popular technique because it is usually effective. Interestingly enough, the thought never crosses their minds when half-truths or outright lies are being spread by the institutions or Baha’is in positions (ABMs, AABMs, etc.) about Baha’is who are considered to be troublemakers.

    The other point you bring up is even more important. Transparency, accountability and freedom of speech have been again and again shown to be vital components of any healthy and vibrant society. Remove them and you will see inevitable corruption and ultimately the decline of any society.

    We do not have a ‘free press’ in the Baha’i Faith. The closest was perhaps ‘Dialogue’ magazine. It was closed down. Then there was Kalimat Press, which had its access to the Baha’i community revoked and the institutions were instructed to not purchase or promote its products through official Baha’i functions and channels.

    What we are left with is the new medium of the internet. So far the UHJ has not applied the policy of ‘review’ to any work published on the internet and as the popularity of this medium grows, it remains to be seen how it will impact the Baha’i community.

    It is my hope that the revolutionary means it provides to collapse distance, time and other barriers will also serve to reverse the ossification that has started to set in within the Baha’i community and institutions.

  • L.R.

    Great blog! I currently live in Toronto and have some familiarity with the local Bahais. Through a work relationship, I was introduced to the Bahai community and was initially welcomed with open arms.

    However, over time, my “independent investigation of the truth” always led to me finding tremendous hypocrisy and leaps of logic within the faith.

    The Bahais were always friendly and cordial, and handled their family life/relationships admirably, but they were completely blind to their pride and self righteousness.

    Quite frankly, I would rather associate with people who drank once in awhile, had premarital sex, but were at least logical, kind to others without motive, and didn’t assume an air of invincibility/superiority because the burden of knowing the ‘truth’ fell on them.

    Bahais allowing Danesh to teach fails the test of logic. And these are people who are going to save the world? I’ve heard many Bahais say that the reason so few people want to convert to their faith is because it’s “too intellectually challenging” or that people are self centered and don’t want to give up drinking/sex, etcc, or that we are too materially comfortable to desire a spiritual life. All Not True.

    We don’t want to become Bahais because the outside world fulfills our intellectual and spiritual needs far better.

  • Concourse on Low


    Thanks for your acute observations. Sadly, Baha’is don’t realize that their sheer hypocrisy, arrogance and unjustified triumphalism repel even the keenest investigators.

    Baha’is are at a loss for why the world isn’t falling over itself for the BF and converting en masse. Well, just as you said, its pretensions to offering a rich intellectual, spiritual and social community are flat.

    The Baha’i Faith is like a piece of cheap candy – a quick sugar high with a lot of empty calories.

    There’s so much more richness and depth in the supposedly baaaaaad secular world than the shallow bubble of Baha’i communities.

  • Concourse on Low


    You’re an intelligent, talented, capable human being. Stop wasting your time with the bs of the BF.

    You can’t get water from a rock or square a circle.

  • Concourse on Low

    “Transparency, accountability and freedom of speech have been again and again shown to be vital components of any healthy and vibrant society.”

    Exactly, Baquia. But do you really believe that these good things can be exemplified by organizations premised on theism, divine revelation and infallibility?

  • Anonymous

    L.R. Thanks for dropping by (may I ask how you found the blog?). To be fair, there are Baha’is who are actually don’t assuming an air of superiority but I do know what you mean.

    The problem is that the institutions have become far too insular with the same members elected again and again. This produces a ‘clique’ like mentality and the decisions and policies that flow out of them are also closed-minded and often reflect the personal interests of the people on the institutions who have come to believe – because of their ‘lifetime membership’ – that they are entitled to push through personal agendas. The Danesh situation is a symptom of this.

    The application of the Baha’i Faith in the real world, otherwise known as the institutions and the community, is not perfect. I don’t know anyone who is ‘logical’ – other than Spock and even he defenestrated logic many times. People are by their nature walking bags of emotion wrapped around paradoxes.

    But the process of building a Baha’i community and implementing the Baha’i Faith is one that is worthwhile. The effort that I and others are putting into writing critiques is to attempt to hold up a mirror so that things can improve.

  • Concourse on Low


    1. I hardly see L.R.’s comment about Baha’is making giant leaps in logic in their polemical justifications as meriting a condescending and vapid point about the false dichotomy of logic and emotion.

    2. Do you know why Baha’i institutions – yes, almost all of them, not just the UHJ – suffer incumbency-induced insularity? Because their blueprint is a joke from an organizational perspective! The Baha’i system of governance lacks proper checks and balances, transparency and accountability because the institutions – BY DESIGN! – are not accountable to the electorate or transparent in their deliberations (do we have access to the minutes of UHJ meetings that render judgments and decisions? No. Why bother when their decisions are “of God,” under the “unerring guidance of Baha’u’llah and the Bab.” Do you REALLY believe an institution like this can make the world a better place?)

    It’s a design issue, not a personality issue.

    The practical implementation is dysfunctional because the design is flawed. It’s not a case of deviation from the norms; the norms are the problem.

    3. Earlier you spoke about the necessity of accountability, transparency and free speech for a prosperous society.

    Do you really believe that a religion where its founder commands the unconditional, unquestioning acceptance of his decree as the highest virtue a religion that will promote these values?

    Is the Baha’i Faith really compatible with those values when Abdul Baha arrogantly and blithely dismisses “European materialist philosophers” – whatever that might entail – as aloof cows?

    Are doctrinaire claims of infallibility and divine revelation compatible with those values?

    Human history suggests no.

  • Craig Parke

    The wreckage of the 20th Century and the ongoing warfare and economic derangement of the just starting 21st Century give massive support to the mind bending catastrophe of “incumbency-induced insularity”. This seems to be the MAJOR lesson the Cosmos is now trying to communicate in human affairs. I, for one, am certainly paying attention! This seems to also be the great contribution of the Abrahamic religions over the last 3,000 years: a long scientific study of the total and complete dysfunction of the organizational psychology of “group think”. It is the gift that just keeps on giving from the death sentences of state sponsored militant Islam to cover ups of pedophile priests.


    In the secular world we also have the historical account of the elite governing classes that took their nations into WWI (read Barbara Tuchman’s famous book “The Guns of August”) and the elite ruling group think ideological parties that took Germany and Japan into national suicidal in WWII. There is plenty to study!

    Does the recent national financial bankruptcy catastrophe in Iceland shed some further more recent light on what happens when a tiny entrenched “in-group” of people answers to absolutely no one behind closed doors?


    If people in the Baha’i AO are never to hold anyone accountable by knowing what is going on, why did Baha’u’llah give the rank and file the vote? The democratic vote is a way of telling souls THEY ARE WRONG in their judgments and actions!

    The Internet will eventually publicly change the equation in EVERY electoral process EVERYWHERE on Earth. There will eventually be RateTheAO.com and it will be merciless 24/7 on the performance of EVERY Baha’i institution EVERYWHERE on Earth across the entire planet. People will be able to post their experiences with the performance of their Local, National, and International “Baha’is” bodies from ANYWHERE on Earth.

    The Promised Day has indeed come on fiber optic Broadband! There will be total merciless accountability 24/7/365/1000 on every soul that holds any office in the BAO anywhere on this planet. It is coming. This will happen equally everywhere in the entire World too upon anyone whop holds power of any kind!

    The true revolutionaries building the future world in the Major Plan of God(ess) are the software engineers of Mankind. The cat is out of the bag on the 36 year Intel x86 platform. Nobody can stop this now.

    Everyone keep posting!

  • L.R.


    Sometimes I get frustrated by my own spiritual journey, so I google away hoping to find some helpful info. Your blog came up in my search.

    I am trying to find a way to reconcile my belief in God with my inability to embrace fully all the tenants of every religious group or even every type of humanist group that I have ever explored. (and there have been lots)

    To be fair, most Bahais do not display overt airs of superiority. Like most others who believe that they have the “truth”, be it secular or religious, it is often very subtle.

    I agree with you that for those who were born into the Bahai faith, or have been part of it for most of your life, it is still a worthwhile goal to build a Bahai community. I also believe this to be true for Christians, Muslims or whatever faith your life’s journey takes you.
    There is strength in numbers and the human need for a community life will never go away.

    As imperfect as all groups and individuals are, we must continue to strive for a better and more just world.

    If Bahais want their communities to flourish, they have to be open to criticism.
    As a person who once explore the faith and wanted very much to believe it’s promises, I can only offer you the truth of my experience.

    Bahai’s sell their religion as being progressive and modern, but in reality it’s rather conservative and traditional. Not allowing women in the UHJ, believing that there is such thing as infallible humans, denying homosexuals their rights are NOT small things. If there are people posting on your blog and sound kind of bitter, it’s probably because of this feeling of being “duped”.

    Most Bahais I meet seem to be modest, boring intellectual types. If the faith was so fresh and relevant, don’t you think it’s followers should be as well?

    I spent 4 years exploring the BF and to my utter surprise, the first time I went to a Christian service ( Holy Trinity in London, UK), it was exploding with energy and full of young, hip people. The minister gave a sermon that made me feel more certain that God exists. Doctrinally, they are conservative and they don’t tell you otherwise. Of course Christian churches aren’t perfect, but I get sense that they are doing a lot of things right that supposedly more ?enlightened? Bahais are not.

    Seriously, Bahais need to hire a PR firm.

  • Amanda


    Aside from peoples behavior, how exactly does the “design” provide for transparency, accountability, and free speech?

    Uhj- accountable only to God. Right?

    Transparency- how and why do they make their decisions? What stipulations in the design provide for transparency?
    (And what do you think transparency is, exactly?)

    Free speech? We’ve been over this elsewhere, but prohibition of speech in multiple contexts is actually the *opposite* of free speech. What happens to you if you speak freely in contexts where speech is prohibited? Sanctions.

    Also, how are you defining “design”? Only what Baha’u’llah said? ‘Abdu’l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi are not sanctioned “design” architects? What do you think of the Kitab-i-Ahd?

  • Concourse on Low


    How can a system that claims divine inspiration and infallibility (the Baha’i administrative system) provide transparency, accountability and free speech? Neither the LSA or NSA is accountable to the electorate, and the UHJ is only accountable to God, and the deliberations of the 9 wise men is secret.

    Term limits mean nothing when the design of the system is dysfunctional.

    The process of review is quite compatible with the conservative mindset of the Baha’i community, and even Baha’i theology. The divinely guided institutions need to protect the sheep from the idle fancies and vain imaginations of the baddies.

  • Baquia

    CoL, the ‘design’ of the Baha’i institutions provides for transparency, accountability, free speech and even term limits. That they have not been implemented ubiquitously is not a design flaw but a shortcoming of the decisions made so far. There is nothing that prevents it from occurring. In fact, the administration of the Baha’i community has a lot of flexibility built into it. The key however is the implementation, as with all things. For example, nothing prevents the UHJ from completely removing the process of review that was initiated by Abdu’l-Baha as a temporary measure. Similarly, tomorrow we could wake up to the news of term limits. Nothing in the Baha’i writings eliminates those possibilities. In fact, they are completely allowed and the principles underlying them are reiterated and lauded repeatedly.

    My previous comment re logic was to highlight that as humans we rarely make decisions based on reason. Even though we may believe we are logical, in essence we are driven by emotions. But this is tangential to the real issues so I don’t want to get carried away.

  • Kurt


    What is wrong with being a modest, boring intellectual type? Shoghi Effendi was certainly modest, intellectual and probably boring sometimes but his letters are fresh and relevant even today. And he gave us brilliant translations. What more could we want? Why do you need a minister to to make you feel more certain that God exists?

    Though a Bahai for over 30 years, I have never lived in a bahai community, am a bit irreverant and have a tendency to stick foot in mouth when with bahais. Oops. Too bad! “Do we have our bahai faces on today?” “Detached from everything but detachment. Ha”

    When disatisfied with AO, I turn to history and study the development of previous religious institutions. Pretty bloody affair birthing a revelation, divine or no. If anything, I would prefer the Universal Justice Command, excuse me, UHJ, had a department of religious history if for no other reason than not to make the same stupid mistakes all the others have made. And what is the gestation period of the AO, anyway?

    The most prodigious bahais know how to extract the essence from the Reveleation (the writings) and present them in a fresh and relevant way (as you point out) such as “We must always remember that Jesus and Mohammad are the best of friends! So why aren’t we (Christians and Moslems) the best of friends?” Or “The most important thing in spirituality is to cultivate a pure heart!” People listen to the simple truths and are turned off by the doctrine, the dogma, the self righteousness, etc. Anyway, that is my experience.

    I enjoyed your comments, LR, and am also glad to see Bacquia is posting again.

  • Concourse on Low


    Actually, of the very few things that Baha’is are good at, it’s PR. The glossy, pamphlet version of the BF, with it’s nicely enumerated principles, are quite congenial to progressive types. But once you get past the marketing hype, you realize that you’ve been taken in by a lot of false advertising.

    And I wish I could meet some of these “intellectual types” that you speak of. I’ve very rarely come across a deep thinking Baha’i. You mostly get platitudes and then diversions and spin once you try to dig past the rote doctrinaire answers.

  • Cannotgiveyoumyemail

    dear Baghiyyeh

    Islam is killing bahais and the bahais say bad muslims are killing
    Islam is good few muslims are bad

    here also you are telling bahai is good and a few bahais are bad

    good day

  • Stella Herbert

    Didn’t Christ teach forgiveness? Mr Danesh has a brillilant mind and undestanding of current issues, and his books are of great value to Bah??’?s around the world. His abililties s hould not be ignored due to a mistake in the past. What happened to taking out the plank in our own eyes before remo ving the speck in our neighbours eye and breathe not the sins of others unless thou thyself are not a sinner? Of couse Mr Danesh did wrong and presumably has paid for it, and should never be put in a position where his weakness can find expression, but this does not mean that he should be ostracised by hte Bah??’?s.
    I came across this site by accident looking for something else and I am saddened to hear about Mr Danesh – I did not need to know this, how can Bah??’is justsify using the Internet to advertise people’s faults? Yes it was a wrong – a big one, I am sure he fells really bad about it, and will have to face Bah??’u”ll??h in the next world, this is no concern of mine or yours – too much information!

  • Baquia

    Stella, I don’t harbor any ill will towards Danesh. I do think it is important to know who is being put forward as the ‘face’ of the community and who is being promoted heavily by the institutions. This is not only important because of the effect it has on the community itself but also important because it speaks volumes to outsiders about the values that we profess to hold dear.Coddling someone like Danesh, first by sending him away to a comfy job half a world away and then by promoting his seminars throughout the country is not the sign of a healthy functioning administration. Finally, contrasting the treatment of Danesh by the institutions with the treatment meted out to scholars and theologians like Juan Cole, Sen McGlinn, and others like Alison Marshall, Kalimat Press, etc. is also important. Why is forgiveness so quickly requested for someone like Danesh? and forgotten for others who never did anything approaching his reprehensible conduct? why are intellectuals punished, ostracized, maligned, abused by the institutions? and why is the heinous actions of Danesh so quickly forgotten and swept under the rug?The only difference is that whereas they were ‘outsiders’, Danesh was and is the quintessential insider, having been a member of the NSA for many years and serving as its chair.This is not a personal issue but rather an example or symptom of something terribly wrong with an administration that is insular, aloof, drunk with a sense of entitlement and opaque.

  • Baquia

    there is nothing that prevents institutions from being transparent. For example, providing financial records and statements, sharing their deliberations, meeting minutes, etc. the exception naturally would be preserving personal privacy issues when there is a divorce for example, there is no need for a personal issue to be aired publicly within the community by the institution. This level of transparency is maintained by many institutions and it is the standard to which they should strive, as per Shoghi Effendi’s explicit instructions:

    The duties of those whom the friends [Bah??’?s] have freely and conscientiously elected as their representatives are no less vital and binding than the obligations of those who have chosen them. Their function is not to dictate, but to consult, and consult not only among themselves, but as much as possible with the friends whom they represent. They must regard themselves in no other light but that of chosen instruments for a more efficient and dignified presentation of the Cause of God. They should never be led to suppose that they are the central ornaments of the body of the Cause, intrinsically superior to others in capacity or merit, and sole promoters of its teachings and principles. They should approach their task with extreme humility, and endeavour by their open-mindedness, their high sense of justice and duty, their candour, their modesty, their entire devotion to the welfare and interests of the friends, the Cause, and humanity, to win not only the confidence and the genuine support and respect of those whom they should serve, but also their esteem and real affection. They must at all times avoid the spirit of exclusiveness, the atmosphere of secrecy, free themselves from a domineering attitude, and banish all forms of prejudice and passion from their deliberations. They should, within the limits of wise discretion, take the friends into their confidence, acquaint them with their plans, share with them their problems and anxieties, and seek their advice and counsel. And when they are called upon to arrive at a certain decision, they should, after dispassionate, anxious, and cordial consultation, turn to God in prayer, and with earnestness and conviction and courage record their vote and abide by the voice of the majority, which we are told by our Master to be the voice of truth, never to be challenged, and always to be whole-heartedly enforced. To this voice the friends must heartily respond, and regard it as the only means that can ensure the protection and advancement of the Cause.
    (23 February 1924 to the Bah??’?s of America, published in “Bah??’? Administration”, p. 64)

    and again:

    Let us also bear in mind that the keynote of the Cause of God is not dictatorial authority, but humble fellowship, not arbitrary power, but the spirit of frank and loving consultation. Nothing short of the spirit of a true Bah??’? can hope to reconcile the principles of mercy and justice, of freedom and submission, of the sanctity of the right of the individual and of self surrender, of vigilance, discretion and prudence on the one hand and fellowship, candour and courage on the other.
    (23 February 1924 to the Bah??’?s of America, published in “Bah??’? Administration”, pp. 63-64)

    Regarding ‘free speech’, this is about the policy of review. As you probably know, this was a temporary measure instituted by Abdu’l-Baha at a perilous time when all sorts of machinations were made by His estranged family to undermine not only His authority but to sow the seeds of suspicious and animosity within the hearts of the public and government officials in Palestine. The UHJ has decided to not apply it to the internet and is likewise free to remove it completely. As a consequence of the passage of time, difference circumstances and the advancement of technology, it is now nothing more than an anachronism.

    Finally, regarding accountability, this is not about catering to the whims and fancies of the plurality of the community at any point in time but rather the ability to freely elect members to the institutions. Right now, as has been discussed on this blog many times, there is a problem with membership being limited to a tiny group of Baha’is who are elected repeatedly with the status of current and past membership acting as a nomination of sorts. The introduction of term limits and/or the education of the Baha’i community regarding the pernicious influence of incumbency can easily remedy it. Term limits are perfectly in line with the principles of Baha’i administration.

  • Craig Parke

    “This is not a personal issue but rather an example or symptom of something terribly wrong with an administration that is insular, aloof, drunk with a sense of entitlement and opaque. ”

    Indeed. There is some kind of very curious deranged group think organizational self preservation collective mind at work in the BAO since it’s inception in 1921. You can follow it’s strange impaired workings through decade after decade. Somebody is going to get a PhD. on studying it some day in terms of dysfunctional entrenched organizational psychology. But I don’t think there will ever be any film rights involved. Everyone has seen this movie before. It has been playing everywhere in every civilization and culture for centuries. Entrenched insiders vs great unwashed outsiders. At least the British Monarchy has good PR! LOL! And I really like Prince Charles’s new book. He would never be free to write such a book if he was a Baha’i. It is on the “Mysterious Unity of the Universe”. It is quite good. I really like it!


  • fubar


    Hope you and everyone else have a very blessed T-day.

    Prince Charles is a romanticist. His love of nature is charming (I like his advocacy of organic farming, etc.), but he can afford luxuries that most of the planet can’t.

    A more serious attempt at grappling with the difficulties involved with the issue of changing the premises of the current economic-technological system:

    Why a spiritual “paradigm shift” MUST include “POLITICAL” change:


    The Nature of Order
    Christopher Alexander
    (University of California)

    …But a real paradigm change – a way of thinking which really and truly changes our ideas about war, equality, money, jobs, leisure, family… all that may be easy to say, but is nevertheless very hard to DO. It is frightening to do, because to do it, we really have to change the things we are comfortable with. We may, yes indeed, be conscious of the fact that we are screwed up, and we may wish for better things for ourselves and for our children – but we remain enmeshed in a system which makes us secure (relatively), happy (relatively), morally OK (perhaps), and protected from starvation and disease (if we belong to the privileged 10% of the world’s population who are economically OK in the world today).

    But, we ourselves are enmeshed, deeply enmeshed, in the production of ugliness, zoning, banking, transportation, corporate America, making warplanes, destroying beautiful land by permitting and encouraging construction of freeways for our cars, and by permitting and encouraging the ravages of commercial development and strip malls. No matter how much we look down on it, and criticize it as bad, evil, and harmful – still we ourselves live off the product of this kind of America we hate. It is therefore easier to keep walking as a cripple with a pair of crutches, than it is to throw the crutches away, and take the huge effort of actually learning to walk again.

    We are part of that which we criticize and part of that which we hate. Yet we are sustained by that of which we are a part.

    So talking about a paradigm shift is nice stuff for armchair reading, but very much harder to DO.

    So this is what you have in Book 2: The Forbidden Classes of Christopher Alexander at Berkeley, 1985 to 1992… all the knowledge that was too dangerous to allow the students to take, or to absorb, is presented in this book.

    Yes, it is dangerous. Because if you start to understand how everyday processes in our normal lives are linked (or not) to the creation of life, in us, in our neighborhoods, in our surroundings, …then everything will change.

    This material comes from new ways of thinking about the way the world unfolds. It suggests a new vocabulary of thought about living process, defines some of the main ideas, shows hundreds of examples, and discusses, patiently, carefully, all along, why and how one process destroys life, and why another process enhances life.

    At the end of the book there is a sixty-page section on building a single house, showing what happens when the life creating processes are in charge, and what kind of house you get: a living structure.

    The idea of process thinking has been a large part of the last few decades. But the idea of living process is new. The suggestion that the harmony of the earth, which occurred naturally at one time, almost by itself, is dependent on a class of processes which we have not previously recognized: that is entirely new.

    That is something you can think about. The book sets forth a new way of looking at the world scientifically, not only politically, which shows how living structure can be encouraged, and how all the sciences, as well as large scale social and artistic processes, are likely to be modified by this kind of thinking.


    Baquia said “there is nothing that prevents institutions from being transparent.”

    Sorry for any decontextualization, but that is actually not the case,
    IMO. What prevents transparency is *both* design and personality (culture).

    re: institutional design “vs.” behavior/personality

    shoghi effendi (or one of his secretaries) wrote a line made famous during the talisman1 controversy about how when mysticism is absent, “mere organization” (or similar) becomes a “dead thing”. (paraphrased. maybe soomeone can post the exact quote?)

    So, even according to (often ignored/misinterpreted) bahai “scripture”, personality/behavior (organizational culture) are indeed far more important than “mere organization” (design/structure), but a big part of the inability of the haifan bahai faith (HBF) organization to innovate, be flexible and transcend past dysfunctional patterns is that the “personality” is fixed on the “sacredness” of inflexible structure!

    This fixation on what is basically a PURITY myth (revelation, infallibility, etc.) IS A HUGE DISASTER AND GIANT OBSTACLE to reform.

    Obviously there is massive denial of how the AO is absent mysticism (unvarnished self-reflection, honesty, etc.), and thus has become “dead”.

    Both the “design” and “personality” of the HBF administration appear to be locked into a downward spiral of dysfunctionality. There is very little evidence (for at least 30 years) that either “outside” dissent/criticism or nonconformism – or “internal” attempts at reform – are actually capable of bringing about a reduction of the dysfunctional aspects of haifan bahaism.

    As CoL has stated, there is something in the basic fabric of bahai theology that is wrong. Such wrong stuff (mythic, prerational belief) will continue to thwart reforms until something happens that will allow the open rejection of those backward beliefs by the bahai community as part of “something better”.

    The real question is: if the mythic, outdated metaphysics that haifan bahai belief is premised upon could be sugically removed, would there be anything left of value, other than an empty, hollow, shell of dysfunctional organization?

    There are already an extremely large number of humanitarian organizations that embrace compassion and altruism, selflessness, peace, harmony, and so forth.

    Is there anything that bahaism can add that hasn’t already been done by such groups?

    Was bahaism’s real contribution anything but an unsucessful attempt at reforming shiism (or middle eastern culture)?

  • Craig Parke

    Same to you and yours fubar! I hope you had a nice “T-Day”! Once again, this is a very useful and insightful post. In fact, I believe learning “COSMIC DESIGN” principles in every human endeavor is the Prime Directive for the next 1,000 years. If we are going to have a planetary civilization people are going to have to think very, very deeply in “systems design”. The new planetary communication technology of the Internet is a very good start!

    The Abrahamic religions actually have some deep encoded knowledge about “Cosmic Design” but it was all lost in 557 BC during the Babylonian captivity. But bits and pieces of it are out there and will be re-discovered. Google Fabre d’Olivet! Especially his 1815 book! (Good stuff! He did get ex-communicated by the Roman Catholic Church for his impressive work!)

    Of course, all esoteric systems of knowledge are completely forbidden now in the Baha’i Faith as stated in one of Peter Khan’s speeches in the last year or so so the Baha’is, once again, will not be players and will be completely left behind. But everyone else on Earth will push on in the highest arts and sciences using Cosmic esoteric knowledge!

    I am very interested in “The Nature of Order” by
    Christopher Alexander and will be getting the book. We live and die by design pattern recognition where I work. It is a fundamental and very basic design concept now in software engineering. Both organizations and people neglect this level of insight at their own peril in any profession where you are on the money clock and you have to come through!

    Once again, my sincere thanks for your many valuable and insightful posts!

    Best regards,


    Just listen to the signature “pattern” of Johnny Winter here! This will tell anyone with ears how to program in Java or C# quite well!

    Johnny Winter Hey Joe (Live) Full Version

  • Craig Parke

    And also notice that Johnny had his basic Chuck Berry riffs down at the age of 15! His brother Edgar is 13 here! You have to get the BASIC DESIGN PATTERN down in very profession and system of insight in life if you are going to move in the medium.

    Johnny & The Jammers – School Day Blues

    If you have your chops down, you can go on Danish TV 13 years later and know what you are doing. This is true of every profession. You have to PAY YOUR DUES and learn from other people on the same path of artistry,


    Always note people who are carrying the World Age! I am in touch with these ladies! They have studied their Jimmy Page and are dangerous!

    Lead guitarist Steph Paynes looks just like my Aunt Martha if she had been playing Jimmy Page note for note in 1954!

    And I love these people too!

    And Maya Beiser is sublime!

    The words tell of many a path in the New World Age! All bets are now off!

  • In addition to Baquia’s response, I’d like to add that another reason this “issue” is an a current concern for the Bahai community, in my view, is because of the announcement of this workshop:
    “Shaping Our Destiny: An Open Forum for Youth and Young Adults
    with Dr. H.B. Danesh, Date:Monday, 22 November 2010”

    and similar workshops and presentations being promoted in the Canadian Bahai community. It is because he is promoted in the field he was disbarred from- in areas of sexuality and family relationships. If he was speaking in another field or was not put in a position of ‘trust’ in this manner, then his history of sexual impropriety would not be relevant.

    No one on this blog is suggesting any form of ostracisation, the objections are to the promotion as a person of ‘trust’ in a field he was disbarred from. Would you suggest that your teenage children receive instruction from a person who was a history of sexual impropriety? Do you think it is OK for a NSA to promote such a person in this field?
    It would be different if he was promoted to speak on another topic or if he had demonstrated some level of remorse, and was only speaking in ways where he could not be interpreted as being a person of ‘trust’.
    Perhaps that he agreed to pay the victims some money could be interpreted as a sign of remorse, but from the context of the newspaper article, it seems that he agreed to this so that the case would not proceed through the court.
    That he is continuing today as if nothing happened and that the NSA of Canada appears to be promoting him as if nothing has happened strikes me as going against the Bahai principle of justice. That is why events that happened 16 years ago are being discussed on this blog.

  • Baquia

    Thank you Sonja, you convey my sentiments much more eloquently than my feeble attempts. As I wrote facetiously at the end of the post, what’s next? Franco Ceccherini going around Italy, promoted by the Italian NSA, giving workshops and talks on the fund?

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  • Nainish

    I wish those here who have such fanciful ideas on how the AO should be amended to fit their personal designs would express some kind of positivity, about anything on any subject at all pertaining to the beauty of the human spirit. Alas, all we see here are salacious speculations about an espisode of which the commentators know only the barest outline.

    The commentary here does attest that Puritanism is still alive and well in North America. Perhaps this blog serves a purpose for the few who repeatedly make their plaint here; There seems to be an overweening inability unable to respect institutional authority of any kind. Wake up, this kind of criticism is the cheap coinage of immaturity. Comments like these here are a good example how so many words just end in nothing more than words. Good luck to you all.

  • Baquia

    What we peddle here are facts and reasonable conclusions based on such facts. If you don’t like them you’re welcome to call them ‘fanciful ideas’ or ‘salacious speculation’ but everything I’ve written can be confirmed with the minimum effort.

    Sadly, you mistake institutional authority for the principles that animate this Cause and have put the cart before the horse.

    Our allegiance is firstly to truth and the principles upon which the Faith is built not to the institutions, especially when those same institutions act in direct conflict with the principles that they claim to be inspired by.

    One would think that the Baha’is who are watching the horrific tragedy that is the Catholic church abuse cases would learn a thing or two. But apparently some instead shove even more cotton balls in their ears and close their eyes even tighter:

    La-La-LA-LA-La-La-LA-LA-la… I can’t hear you……..

  • Oscar Wilde

    Nainish, I take this opportunity to say FUCK YOU and your fantastic (=pertaining fantasy, imagination) authority.

    Nothing has authority on the “beautiful” human spirit, it is the human spirit that has authority over everything else, for the human spirit is naturally beautiful indeed and any other authority is indeed artificial and ugly. Beauty rules over ugliness. Nature rules over artifice.

  • Oscar Wilde

    1) It wasn’t a personal insult. Rather an insult to a mentality which you yourself don’t like.
    2) Don’t take it too seriously. It’s a funny little insult.
    3) You’re free to delete if you like, it’s your blog. I woudn’t agree but it’s your choice.

  • Oscar Wilde

    ps: I think insults to certain mentalities are very important. I don’t care about political correctedness. I don’t care ALL THE TIME. I care sometimes. I’m moderate.

  • Baquia

    Woah! I can understand that these types of discussions may get emotionally heated but please refrain from personal insults or ad hominem. That goes for everyone.

    Nothing is to be gained when instead of speaking about the issue at hand, we debase ourselves and the dialogue by insulting each other. Disagreements are fine, as the Master said, the clash of differing opinions produces the spark of truth. But as moderator, I draw the line at personal attacks and insults.

  • Liv

    The Bah??’? Faith and the Bah??’? Community are NOT the same. If a religious community does says its follows a religion, but doesnt adhere to the advice, principles and warnings of the Religion itself, I think it’s not logical to say that the Religion itself is wrong, only the followers.

    If there is God, wouldn’t His religion exists independently of its followers?
    We don’t make the Faith, we have a duty to try and follow it, if we believe.

    NSA’s and LSA’s have made many mistakes throughout their existence, they have hurt many people and done many things wrong, I wont deny it, but if we start attacking them, rather than changing them, we’ll never be able to build the future the Bah??’? Faith talks about.

    That’s just my opinion. And I stand by it, even if i myself have been through hell because of how the community and institutions can be.

    I just can’t stop myself from thinking, isnt changing how people are, how institutions and society works part of what the Bah??’? Faith asks us to do? I have found many letters (f.ex. Ridvan 150) and Writings (f.ex. Secret of Divine Civilization) and ABS material (f.ex. Udo Schaefer) that have helped me deal with the injustices of people around me (whether it be institution, community of bah??’?).

  • Liv

    I’m also wondering what evidence this article is based on?
    I’ve seen too many lives been ruined based on hearsay, rumour and misunderstandings.

  • Anonymous

    Liv, I agree with you. The Bahai Faith and the Baha’i community are not one and the same. The community and institutions have many faults and it is my hope that through transparency and self-reflection the community and the institutions may mature and develop. My intention is for dialogue which will provide for a healthy environment and allow us to grow up and develop. Stifling open dialogue and the ability to questions the decisions that the institutions are making, especially those that are in conflict with the principles of the Faith and which hurt the community, is not way to encourage growth or maturation.

    We often hear over and over again about how the institutions are maturing and for us to be patient. The point is not that whether they are mature or not, the point is are we headed in the right direction in terms of development? is development even taking place? The above is intended to promote such positive change. It is not a personal attack towards one person but a consequence of the poor decision making and opacity surrounding the culture of self-entitlement that is choking the Baha’i institutions.

  • Anonymous

    Liv, I provided a link to the evidence. You may not have been around when the original events occurred but you can easily check the Toronto Star article and see for yourself.

    This article is based on FACTS, whether careless readers bring their own biases or not, nothing changes that. And the facts are very easily verified as I’ve provided sources. Both to the original article describing the events 16 years ago and to the current events (workshops posters).

  • Liv

    Thanks 🙂 I may have commented too quickly.

  • Liv

    I can’t argue with you. I see the same myself. I think it’s more that I get frustrated about how easily people go to the extremes, whether it be for the institutions or against.

  • Nainish

    The Bah??’? Faith and the Bah??’? Community are NOT the same?
    Nothing has authority over the “beautiful” human spirit?
    Really? Heard of God? Baha’u’llah?

    It seems OW doesn’t even have authority over his mouth.
    Unfortunately, this thread smells like teen spirit.

    Read any of the Bah??’? Teachings, lately?
    Maturity is actually one of the goals of existence, along with patience, forebearance, and civility. Not slander. Not accusation.

    If you as a Bah??’? find you must accuse, the Institutions are the forum for your complaints, yet instead here is this long whining rope of self-justifying commentary leading back to the same immature conclusions. Sad.

    You call this advancement?

  • Anonymous

    Nainish, it seems that for you (unpalatable) facts are ‘slander’ and ‘accusation’. For others, this is not the case. We are able to distinguish between reality – which we may not necessarily like – and slander/libel and all the other nasty stuff you allude to.

    To be clear, no, the Baha’i Faith is not the community. One is the Revelation, the other is the imperfect implementation of that Revelation by imperfect mortals in an imperfect world. The result is haphazard and chaotic at times. But still better than the alternative.

    May I ask you, do you think it is possible to develop the skills of maturity, forbearance and civility if we restrict dialogue? if we ban transparency? if we have censorship?

    The institutions are a forum for complaints – as you put it. In theory. In reality, they are not. I speak from decades of personal experience. Not one single issue which was taken to them for consideration was ever given its due.

    Do you really expect the same institutions that are making these horrible decisions to suddenly go… ‘Wait a tick! Baquia’s right! We’ve made a frightful mistake!’. In case you haven’t noticed, humility is not their strong suit… something else that must be worked on for maturity to develop.

  • Oscar Wilde

    Mouth: I command you to speak: why the hell does this man take for granted that I am a baha’i and want to behave in a baha’i manner or read the baha’i teachings?

    And so it speaketh.

    And then mouth answered: for he is brainwashed and doesn’t look beyond his nose. He thinks you’re immature and he is not, for he only sees appearances, but don’t worry: God knows the truth and that’s what matters.

    pps: why does this man shorten Oscar Wilde into OW? 1) he is america, she thinks shortening is cool. 2) He doesn’t want to say Oscar Wilde for that would make him sounds too intellectual to himself – and he thinks that being intellectual is not a good thing – for he is ignorant and has no aesthetic sense. Verily I say: he is populace, and the populace is NEVER right. Listen therefore to the elite of intelligent people, for only them are truly intelligent, no matter what these commoners would like to think because of their egos way unproportioned to their lack of objective aesthetic or technical value.

  • Liv

    I think dialogue, opennes, respect, true consultation without resorting to name-calling and angry shouting, is one way towards developing the skills of maturity, forbearance and civility.
    The other us trying to focus more on our own development as human beings than we focus on critizising others.
    I believe in truth, and facts that are important for the public to know, being made public.

    I’ve worked for an institution (later being illegally betrayed by that institution), and i saw that there do exists cases that need to be keep secret, for them to be solved, even cases of communities dissolving through family feuds and arrogance.

    I think blogs like this are important. As long as the comments and articles do not become slander, fights etc. But in this age, what can one expect 🙂

  • Nainish


    Your little rant is a fine example of a befuddled tongue disconnected from its heart. You will grow and find the connection. May it bring you joy.

    When you and the other disgruntled juvenilistic commentators do find that connection, I suggest study on Baha’u’llahs notions of “Hikmat” (graduating wisdom) by those here who have joined partnership with the ineffable, without the sacrifice of knowledge through experience, (which can be painfu)l revealing a wisdom not at all like we imagined; the essence of attaining to reality is surrender.

  • fubar


    You are seeking to “ammend” the requirement for honesty that is clearly stated in bahai scripture (and ther similar sources of spiritual advice). Most modern/postmodern people that are objective and informed find such rejection of honesty to be arrogant and unnecessary.

    In plain, unvarnished terms, such lies are metaphyscial baggage in their spiritual/intellectual path, and are not necessary for the realization of higher truth.

    All backward, medieval/conformist cultures atttempt to stigmatize nonconformance, criticism and dissent by “labeling” it as being “spiritually inferior”.

    If you could, please be more positive about how such criticism could actually lead to meaningful reforms of bahaism and overcome the cynicism and hopelessness that so many people experience after years/decades of seeing the dysfunctional tendencies in bahai culture.

    Please cite ONE single example of how a deep criticism by dissidents was taken up by bahai institutions in a “positive” manner that actually produced meaningful reform.

    Most of the “changes” that have been developed are not deep causes of injustice and dysfunction in the bahai system, rather they have been superficial attempts at tweaking existing practices in service of very old, very dysfunctional “agendas” of those in bahai leadership and their supporters.

    Generally speaking, bahai scripture doesn’t provide an adequate explanation of the problems of spirituality in postmodern culture (or solutions), but that is what is needed for bahaism to be relevant and at the cutting edge of social change.

    Bahaism lacks spiritual depth and authenticity if it can’t at least begin to acknowledge that religion tends to be the “organizing force” in a postmodern world for backward ideas and organizational patterns.



    Shambhala Sun | July 1999
    Liberalism and Religion – We Should Talk
    By: Ken Wilber

    But one thing is absolutely certain: all the talk of a new spirituality in America is largely a waste of time unless … two central dialogues are engaged and answered. Unless spirituality can pass through the gate of science, then of liberalism, it will never be a significant force in the modern world, but will remain merely as the organizing power for the prerational levels of development around the world.


  • Oscar Wilde

    Nainish, you don’t really think you’re wiser than me. I think you’re just deluded. Maybe I’m right, maybe I’m wrong…

  • Oscar Wilde

    *I don’t really think

  • Oscar Wilde

    ps: telling you to FUCK OFF is NOT a sign of lack of wisdom, you fuckin’ appearance attached superficial unwise cunt.

  • Oscar Wilde

    *you just DON’T go beyond…

    oh loo, I have done a couple of MISTAKES, I must be inferior to you…


  • Oscar Wilde

    Jesus hates you, Nainish, and you would have hated Jesus. Fuck off and pelase keep thinking that you’re more spiritually evolved than Jesus, because you are according to your idea that controlling one’s mouth and appearance is ALL that is required.

    Intellectually and aesthetically inferior idiot.

  • Oscar Wilde

    There are hundreds of excuses just to shut the mouth up of those who say the truth by you conformist cunts – being wise does NOT mean being RECOGNIZED by you, the cunt who can’t judge, as wise.

    Jesus was a rebel, a teenage spirit in some way, for teenagers are superior to adults in some way, unless it is not COMFORTABLE for you to think so, it is the truth.

    Jesus hated and fought the established power of judaism at its time.

    Oh, smells like teen spirit.

    Teen spirit is what I hope will destroy you, humanity has walways evolved through the “immaturity” of teen spirit (it’s not immaturity, but you want to perceive it so just to boost your ego, so I’ll let you do that).

    Fuck off and know that the day I’ll have access to your online accounts, you’re a virtually gone man.

    It will happen, one day, just wait. I have no respect of you and your online accounts. I do what I want with them, I don’t have to respect them unless you give me a self-gratifying reason.

    Hypocrit, moralistic corrupted desgusting person you are. Just a perbenist, what else are you? In truth, you are desgusting like Hossain Danesh.

    Those who tell you to fuck you are spiritually superior to you. FUCK YOU is spirituality! IDIOT! Spirituality does not have an APPEARANCE! IDIOT! That’s why it’s called spirituality!

    You think the truth is more complicated by that? Because you’re ignorant. Knowledge is a dot the ignorants have multiplied…I’m pretty sure Baha’u’llah would have not liked you either. If I’m wrong…enjoy heaven!

    If I’m right, instead….enjoy hell.

    I’m not talking to you Nainish really, because I don’t give a damn about you, you don’t even exist. One writes just because he wants. That’s how true art is generated- the beauty of Self, Self is God, you fuckin’ ass – and I know this isn’t really underlined by the baha’i faith, why do you think I’m not a baha’i? The baha’i faith hides the spiritual truths, doesn’t promote them – and the most important one is this, that I AM GOD, that my sould is made by God and therefore I submit uniquely to the will of myself, never that of an institution or an imaginary “God”! God is not an individual.

    But the baha’i institutions hide all that because they OBVIOUSLY care about about power more than the spiritual advancement of people.

    Shall somebody prove to me without an air of aloofness, which only means they don’t know what they’re talking about, that the baha’i institution work to spread truth and spirituality, I will become a baha’i supportin the baha’i institutions.

    But the baha’i institutions are SO aloof they don’t even care whether others will believe them or not. They’re lazy, happy of their million or two who even know about them. What a small, mediocre empire.

    I might wrong on this, but nobody ever told me how and why.

    On Ninnish basically stating his spiritual superiority on all of us just because he plays by the rules because he’s a coward, we have nothing to do but laughing.

    Just a little baby.

    Ninnish. You are a little baby.

    Get off my way, little baby, for the world hasn’t been created for you only, you small piece of cake, me big piece of cake.

  • Oscar Wilde

    On one thing though, Nainishhhhh, you could be right – no stupid person is ALWAYS wrong, ALWAYS, that is too absolutistic. When you say that AT TIES by mouth could be disconnected to my spirit, this could perfectly be true, and I’ll never say it’s wrong: it is very stupid of you to SAY this, because that is judging something that is way to deep for you to know with the data you have in your hands, and even if you had some indications, it would be just arrogant to say it out loud like that, in my opinion.

    But when you say that, even if it could be true – again, SOMETIMES, it is not true always, nobody who is on a spiritual path is ALWAYS disconnected to his spirit – does that mean that YOU aren’t disconnected, and that you are not an hypocrit conformist as I think you are?

    No. It doesn’t mean that. Me disconnected to spirit…you too…you hypocrit as well. Nobody wins and nobody loses…I mean…we both lose maybe.

    What about my accusation that you are limited? You just respond with another accusation. I have responded to your accusation of being disconnected to spirit: and I say, you might be right, now fuck off for it’s my business and you shouldn’t dare typing it. You are obviously disconnected to yourself, do I say it? No, it’s the most terrible insult I could do to you…even more so for it’s obviously true. It’s is obviously true that you are very far away from your spirit…nobody is more so than a guy like you who falsely thinks he is doing the right thing.

    I accused you of something more tangible and more useful to discuss about, which is the fact that you are LIMITED…and then, that you are a hypocrit. I explained why I think so and others did too…now, why don’t you defend yourself, why don’t you answer? In my opinion, you don’t answer because it’s true, but either you want to hide it to me or to yourself, but you totally don’t think it’s not true, and if you don’t, then please, share with us: why AREN’T you an hypocrit and a LIMITED conformist?

    I think, and it’s typical of baha’i elementary people, that putting it on a spiritual judgement level just to condemn those you criticize your INTELLECTUAL features (NOBODY can know and judge you SPIRITUALLY, except yourself!!! Yourself is God, idiot, stop thinking the Self is a bad thing, read and understand that society just wants to manipulate you, doesn’t want you to express your full potential! It’s obvious, idiot, it’s impossible that it is otherwise! Impossible!), so, I think that doing that is full-blown lame, and one of the most arrogant things I’ve ever seen. Not even children do taht, only people who think they are spiritual while they are not commit such a sin, of judging the other’s spiritual level…

    I do nto know your spiritual level, and I don’t give a damn. I know that you are INTELLECTUALLY lame, your spirit, I don’t even see it, but the smallness of your brain and your member is evident to everyone.

    And this is MY OPINION and you are FREE to not believe me and tell me why, why isn’t your brain small? Why?

    If you can’t tell why, then how can I ever believe that I’m wrong! I won’t I believe I’m right when I say that your brain is small. You lose! Idiot.

  • sheids

    how can you classify sexual harassment as a ‘mistake’
    come on.

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