Dan, You keep shifting the goal posts. Of course there are liberal Christians. However, you began only with Roman Catholics. Now you are saying that “many Christians are good old fashioned idolaters.”

Hi Carmen. Sorry if I wasn’t clear. It wasn’t that I was moving the goal posts, but rather that I was at the other end of the field. I was simply conceding to you that there are indeed many ignorant Christians, and in so doing I was pointing out that your discovery of ignorant Christians ought not prejudice you against a religion of such diversity.

A general disclaimer: my fundamental intention is not to trash the Baha’i Faith, or to trouble the meek among the Baha’is. I only seek to humble the arrogant. I’ve known too many Baha’is that give a strong impression that they have all the answers. As a Baha’i, I found this quite frustrating.

You keep shifting the goal posts. Of course there are liberal Christians. However, you began only with Roman Catholics. Now you are saying that “many Christians are good old fashioned idolaters.” I know liberal Christians who do not believe humanity is 6000 years old or some other literal ideas but they still believe in the Trinity and that Jesus was God and the Bible is the word of God. You have to try to determine what it is you really believe rather than changing your answers and positions in response to questions seeking clarification.

Ignorance comes in all colors and this includes the ignorance of non-Christians who think they can impose their inconsistent categorizations on Christians and their beliefs based on their personal opinions.

I am quite happy to let others determine their opinions of the Faith based on what they read beyond the brochures. Indeed, many have become Baha’is precisely because they have been able to do this. I became an agnostic at age 14 in high school and it took me 8 months of intensive study of many Baha’i books and many questions during my freshman year at university before I became a Baha’i.

I have recently been in contact with some wonderful people who believe their lives have improved tremendously because of their new found belief in Christ and their in-depth study of the Bible. One had been a drug addict for five years. His belief in Christ has not only saved him from drugs but set him on a path of service in which he has fed addicts in his home and offered help to the homeless. Shifting semantic goal posts makes no diifference in the lives of such people as they do really not care what you and others think of them.

Carmen

Liberal Christians may not be the majority of Christians, but there are plenty of them. I know of plenty of liberal churches in my area that I could attend regularly that value Nature, life, the human spirit, inclusiveness, science, God, etc. It’s *very* easy to see Jesus as a flaming anarchist revolutionary liberal.

If I wanted to be a member of a liberal Baha’i congregation, I’m afraid it would need to be a virtual congregation, and I’ll wager it would be rather controversial.

The Baha’i Faith is essentially Islam plus a few idols. It’s basically a trinitarian corruption of Islam, though the idolatry doesn’t stop there.

What’s new? Baha’u'llah preached world peace through strength, and through strength of force when necessary.

So did Muhammad.

Muhammad, however, did not claim to be God, or even to being infallible. The Muhammad of the Qur’an made mistakes. Muhammad is, at his grandest, a perfect exemplar, but alas, an exemplar who made mistakes! He was not even at the level of ‘Abdu’l-Baha’, that grand idol whose countenance graces so many Baha’i homes, offices, temples, etc.

Many Christians are good ol’ fashioned idolators who take the tales of the prophets literally and believe the world is 6000 years old. Ignorance comes in all colors. They may indeed be shocked at how others see them, just as you may be shocked at how many non-Baha’is see your religion, once they get beyond the brochures.

Yours truly,
Dan

Dan, I mean that one important implication of monotheisme is that we are all members of one human family, brothers and sisters, leaves of one branch, and not of two trees, one of good and the other of evil.

Monotheism aims at uniting through love in diversity and in service to humanity, political ideologies attempt to unite through violence and exclusion towards the interests of one category over those of others.

The fact that it is “easy” does not mean that this is the belief of the majority of Christians and many branches of Christianity. The Trinity and the belief in the Bible as the word of God is a fundamental aspect of the belief of many Christians. It is certainly the belief of all the Christians I have known and what I was taught in the Christian elementary and high schools I attended. They also believe that several personalities in the Old and New Testaments have varying degrees of divine powers including powers of prophecy. Based on this, it seems to me that they would be puzzled and probably astounded by what seems to be your view that they are idolatrous and polytheistic.

Carmen

You mean that monotheism is any universal system that inhibits cultural and political diversity, like Stalinism, for instance?

I thought that monotheism meant that there is only one God, and no man or ideology can lay claim to God (what Muslims call partnership).

Gladly, Carmen. My favorite example of a truly monotheistic religion is , as the name indicates, Unitarianism.

It is quite easy to be a Christian and not believe that Jesus is God or that the Bible is the immaculate word of God.

Sunni Islam and Judaism, though tainted by their own idols, are arguably monotheistic. Some Muslims and Jews practice a monotheistic religion as a personal matter, because Sunni Islam and Judaism put such a high priority on monotheism and not assigning partners to God.

The Baha’i Faith, probably due to its Shi’a roots, is fundamentally adverse to monotheism because it emphasizes the divinity of its founders. Many Muslims believe that Muhammad was a mere man. Muhammad never said “I am God”.

-Dan

Dan, without analysing deeply, i only meant to say that the concept of “One God” implies one creation, one common universal law and not a multitude of social systems, without judging who has truly applied this principle and who has not.

Dan, could you kindly list the religions you consider to be “truly” monotheistic? If they include Judaism, Christianity and Sunni Islam, which are usually considered monotheistic religions, then they should not be on your list. Christianity, for example, has several individuals who fit the “variety of personalities” you mention. These personalities include Jesus, John the Baptist, St. John the Divine (author of the Book of Revelations), St.Paul and the various Old Testament Prophets who Christians revere as having had “superhuman powers of prophecy”. So is Christianity also idolatrous and polytheistic by being “overburdened” as you see it?

Carmen