It Is God’s Will That You Be Tested

Spending time with Persian Baha’i ladies has some consequences. You eat delicious Persian food (rather, you’re forcefed it), you learn to hide your enthusiasm for said food (the Persian practice of “tarof”) and you hear a lot about God’s Will and “tests”.

I have nothing against Persian food but I’m beginning to develop allergies against the superstitious practice of calling everything “God’s Will” or “a test”.

For one, how are we to know what is God’s Will? Sure, the general broad strokes are obvious. They are in every religious dispensation. Don’t kill, be nice, don’t lie, etc. Those are God’s Will for us. That’s what He wants us to do. I have no qualms about those. They are clear.

But what about the mundane, everyday things. Was it God’s “will” that I be late for an interview? Was it God’s “will” that I forgot to call ahead and make reservations? That I burn the toast by forgetting to adjust the setting on the toaster?

I’m not so sure. Maybe it was the Big Guy’s will that those things happen. But then again, maybe they were a result of less than devine motives.

But many of the Baha’is that I spend time with have no doubts whatsoever. They know. And they want to tell you. Usually I just play along and don’t upset their perception of things. But sometimes I do venture to ask meekly, how exactly it is that they know. In those times, they blink and recover with: why… what else can it be? of course it is God’s will.

And then they smile at me as if I’m a total idiot incapable of telling the difference between yogourt and glue.

I keep thinking though that unless you have some sort of direct phone line to God, or are a Prophet you can have no conviction on the matter. But then again, saying “It may or may not be God’s will” just doesn’t have the same ring to it, now does it?

The other one is when they call difficult situations “tests from God”. This one gets me even more. I mean, how the heck do you know? Oh, we already covered that: what else can it be? Yes, ironclad logic. How did I ever miss that one?

Seriously though, I’ve heard this explanation when people are confronted by challenges in their life and slap the name “tests” on them. Going through a divorce? It is a “test”. Children misbehaving? yup, another “test”. And you guessed it, it was specifically tailor made by the Big Guy for you.

Again, not once do these people stop to ask how exactly they know or can prove that this is a “test from God”.

This insidious practice is seeping into Baha’i culture and I hate it. For one, it is supersition and we are to guard against superstition. When religion doesn’t agree with simple reason, something is wrong.

Also, using these superstitious labels, like “God’s will” or “test” causes one to become separated from cause and effect. To not feel personally responsible for our actions, our lives and the results that we cause. I don’t believe that God wants us to live that way. Some things may very well be God’s will or tests, but there is no way for us to know.

What’s more, living our lives as if most or almost everything is a test or His will, can cause one to feel disempowered. I’d rather live my life believing that some things are under my power and some things under His. Since I will never truly know which is which, I will simply live my life by giving it all I’ve got. By living my life to the fullest, by trying my darndest, by never ceding an inch. And letting Him sort it all out in the end.

Where someone else might simply sigh and say, “Well, it is God’s will…” and sit back, I will redouble my efforts or reflect on what else I can do, what other options I have and how I can learn from this for the future. I attempt to be proactive, a protagonist in my own life, rather than a puppet whose strings are pulled by divine decree.

Where someone else might call a situation a “test from God”, and feel vindicated or absolved from responsability, I attempt to reflect on how I contributed to the outcome, how I may react or act differently in the future and what I may do now to improve things. It may be a test, or it may not. That sort of thing is irrelevant to the matter.

Finally, another reason I strongly dislike this practice is that it can be a useful tool in the hand of a bully. Let’s say that a situation arises and you disagree with things or how it came to be. If you contact the institutions and let them know, like a good Baha’i is supposed to, you may get the short and sweet response that “it is God’s will” and that agitating for change would mean that you are making the situation “a test” for yourself.

Farfetched? Impossible? Not at all. This has actually happened.

  • Priscilla Gilman

    Amen, brother. And the God implied by these ways of thinking warrants examination as well.

    Priscilla

  • Priscilla Gilman

    Amen, brother. And the God implied by these ways of thinking warrants examination as well.

    Priscilla

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    Priscilla,
    I take it from your agreement that you’ve run into this sort of thing yourself?

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    Priscilla,
    I take it from your agreement that you’ve run into this sort of thing yourself?

  • Julia Fung

    “God’s Will” and “tests” around every corner are also good tools for a charasmatic leader to control his fold. Once we feel confident that we are on God’s side, and begin to observe the world in terms of “God’s will”, we stop critically evaluating what we are asked to believe or do. After 37 years in the Faith, my biggest problem with it is that for most, search stops with the act of “declaration”. We become blinded by the light, and this should never happen in a faith espousing the virtues of “independent investigation of truth”.

  • Julia Fung

    “God’s Will” and “tests” around every corner are also good tools for a charasmatic leader to control his fold. Once we feel confident that we are on God’s side, and begin to observe the world in terms of “God’s will”, we stop critically evaluating what we are asked to believe or do. After 37 years in the Faith, my biggest problem with it is that for most, search stops with the act of “declaration”. We become blinded by the light, and this should never happen in a faith espousing the virtues of “independent investigation of truth”.

  • Priscilla Gilman

    Yes, plenty. I gather some people find it helpful in dealing with difficulties. But in dealing with my own debilitating illness of 15 years I found shaking this kind of thinking, and the related idea that everything happens for some spiritual reason/purpose, was very good for my mental health. It was crazy-making to think that I was getting sicker and sicker while I couldn’t figure out what God was trying to “teach” me. A therapist once said to me, maybe your illness doesn’t mean anything, except that you are sick. Wow. What a relief. I have learned a great deal in these years, but it didn’t come about through this kind of thinking. I don’t believe in a God who specially arranges everything, including all suffering, to test us or teach us. I believe in a God who is intimately present with us in all that we are and experience and who quietly recreates us through that generous presence.

  • Priscilla Gilman

    Yes, plenty. I gather some people find it helpful in dealing with difficulties. But in dealing with my own debilitating illness of 15 years I found shaking this kind of thinking, and the related idea that everything happens for some spiritual reason/purpose, was very good for my mental health. It was crazy-making to think that I was getting sicker and sicker while I couldn’t figure out what God was trying to “teach” me. A therapist once said to me, maybe your illness doesn’t mean anything, except that you are sick. Wow. What a relief. I have learned a great deal in these years, but it didn’t come about through this kind of thinking. I don’t believe in a God who specially arranges everything, including all suffering, to test us or teach us. I believe in a God who is intimately present with us in all that we are and experience and who quietly recreates us through that generous presence.

  • Brendan Cook

    Priscilla and Baquia,

    As with anything, it really depends when you mean when you say everything happens for a reason. I don’t think that every individual problem — an illness, a war, the death of a child — I don’t think we have to believe God wanted each of these things to happen. But on the other hand, I *do* think it is God’s will that we live in a world where random suffering like this can happen. God may not have planned for one person to get sick and another to die, but it is nonetheless God’s plan that sickness and death exist.

    In short, I think that God has a plan, but I also feel that it’s not the kind of simple, this-thing-happens-for-this-reason that-thing-for-another kind of plan that many seem to think it is.

    Brendan

  • Brendan Cook

    Priscilla and Baquia,

    As with anything, it really depends when you mean when you say everything happens for a reason. I don’t think that every individual problem — an illness, a war, the death of a child — I don’t think we have to believe God wanted each of these things to happen. But on the other hand, I *do* think it is God’s will that we live in a world where random suffering like this can happen. God may not have planned for one person to get sick and another to die, but it is nonetheless God’s plan that sickness and death exist.

    In short, I think that God has a plan, but I also feel that it’s not the kind of simple, this-thing-happens-for-this-reason that-thing-for-another kind of plan that many seem to think it is.

    Brendan

  • Airic

    I think Bahais use if â€?God’s Will’sâ€? or it’s a â€?a testâ€? because, well, that’s a spiritual belief taught in the Baha’i Faith. It’s not something that simply seeped in the culture of the faith as you say. And by a spiritual belief taught in the Baha’i Faith, I mean the founders of this religion actually wrote down that God sends tests to humanity, and that “God willing” we will pass them :). The Bab, Baha’u’llah, Abdulbaha and Shoghi Effendi all taught and wrote about tests sent from God. Also, if you have even read one tablet, or even a paragraph of Abdul-Baha, he always says “God willing”. My point is, it’s clearly not a belief that “seeped” in to the Bahai Faith. Can anyone honestly argue that?

  • Airic

    I think Bahais use if â€?God’s Will’sâ€? or it’s a â€?a testâ€? because, well, that’s a spiritual belief taught in the Baha’i Faith. It’s not something that simply seeped in the culture of the faith as you say. And by a spiritual belief taught in the Baha’i Faith, I mean the founders of this religion actually wrote down that God sends tests to humanity, and that “God willing” we will pass them :). The Bab, Baha’u’llah, Abdulbaha and Shoghi Effendi all taught and wrote about tests sent from God. Also, if you have even read one tablet, or even a paragraph of Abdul-Baha, he always says “God willing”. My point is, it’s clearly not a belief that “seeped” in to the Bahai Faith. Can anyone honestly argue that?

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    True, but the Writings are broad strokes, they do not give anyone the ability to identify a “test” or whether something is “God’s Will”. There’s a great deal of difference in acknowledging that tests exist and claiming that one can identify them accurately and with conviction.

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    True, but the Writings are broad strokes, they do not give anyone the ability to identify a “test” or whether something is “God’s Will”. There’s a great deal of difference in acknowledging that tests exist and claiming that one can identify them accurately and with conviction.

  • Airic

    I agree with that

  • Airic

    I agree with that

  • Priscilla Gilman

    Brendan,

    Certainly. But somehow I find the word “plan” in connection with God’s intentions to be depressing. Can’t type enough now to propose an alternative, though.

    Priscilla

  • Priscilla Gilman

    Brendan,

    Certainly. But somehow I find the word “plan” in connection with God’s intentions to be depressing. Can’t type enough now to propose an alternative, though.

    Priscilla

  • Fritz Gormann

    If you say it’s God’s will, then you’re saying you know the will of God.
    No one knows the will of God only the Manifestations’.

    If you read the writings you may find what God wants you to do.
    If you pray for something to happen are you not asking God to change His will?

    Great article, Thank you.

    Fritz

  • Fritz Gormann

    If you say it’s God’s will, then you’re saying you know the will of God.
    No one knows the will of God only the Manifestations’.

    If you read the writings you may find what God wants you to do.
    If you pray for something to happen are you not asking God to change His will?

    Great article, Thank you.

    Fritz

  • Ray

    I don’t think Baha’is say “it’s God will” to often unless there is an explicit teaching saying that it is. Bahais say it’s “God will” that he sends messengers to humanity, but for most things Bahais say “God willing,” which isn’t affirming what God’s will is. “God willing” and God wills are two different things.

  • Ray

    I don’t think Baha’is say “it’s God will” to often unless there is an explicit teaching saying that it is. Bahais say it’s “God will” that he sends messengers to humanity, but for most things Bahais say “God willing,” which isn’t affirming what God’s will is. “God willing” and God wills are two different things.

  • Fritz Gormann

    Test!
    Job was tested by God and the other guy.
    God said to Job, can you do this,can you do that.
    (Read The Bible and you can know what this or that is)

    The amazing thing is today we can do all the things God ask Job if he could do.

    So, maybe test are not only in the mind of the beholder, but also in a pont of time.

    Again, to say it’s a test is to say you know God.

    Fritz

  • Fritz Gormann

    Test!
    Job was tested by God and the other guy.
    God said to Job, can you do this,can you do that.
    (Read The Bible and you can know what this or that is)

    The amazing thing is today we can do all the things God ask Job if he could do.

    So, maybe test are not only in the mind of the beholder, but also in a pont of time.

    Again, to say it’s a test is to say you know God.

    Fritz

  • http://frankwinters.wordpress.com/ Frank Winters

    Baquia,

    I understand your frustration but I think it comes with the territory.

    Airic has said it well.

    The Baha’i faith seems to teach that there is a God who gets involved in everyday affairs (I’m not sure it means to do that but Baha’is do pray to God even though He is unknowable and unapproachable). Baha’ullah speaks as if he was God (he swears on himself for instance) and says things like “The Great Being sayeth.” He may not have thought he was God but he did think he had a direct connection to the source of all truth and existence itself and that this was constant! (Many Baha’is believe one should pray to Baha’ullah – such a great soul – he can hear and answer all those prayers!) Pretty heady stuff.

    I think its natural for people to “lay all their affairs in God’s hands” once they believe this way. In fact Baha’is, of course are taught that its good the lay all one’s affairs in Gods hands. And it might be — but not with a simple shrug of the shoulders, there is much we must do before we put our affairs on God — or at least that seems logical — if logic has any place in this discussion.

    I think the Baha’i pov is an ancient, naturally quite unscientific, way of viewing the world. So to me the Faith is good and bad – it has its modern day plan (time for nations to unite and everyone to unite… ) Lots of very good and timeless advice (Process a pure, kindly and radiant heart…) and lots of superstition regarding tests and divine reward and punishment.

    The teachings about Manifestations lesser and greater, infallibility of various kinds, numerology and talismans (The Bab spent a lot of time designing them I’ve read) are attempts to explain the mystical essence of being to the masses — and of course once adopted they engender superstition and mental laziness in most people. (I think its because either these teachings are superstition or their meaning goes over most heads — probably a combination of the two)

    Now we have Ruhi and Bahai fundamentalism — the kinds of things we get in most organized religions.

    So I’d say when you hear — “your illness is a test my dear” — I’d say — you are a member of an organized religion of a certain kind — what do you expect?

    Peace,
    Frank

    P.S. I always wondered why The Bab, with His direct connection to God and all, needed a talisman. Are the reports of his fascination with them incorrect? Does anybody know?

    Thanks,
    Frank

  • http://frankwinters.wordpress.com/ Frank Winters

    Baquia,

    I understand your frustration but I think it comes with the territory.

    Airic has said it well.

    The Baha’i faith seems to teach that there is a God who gets involved in everyday affairs (I’m not sure it means to do that but Baha’is do pray to God even though He is unknowable and unapproachable). Baha’ullah speaks as if he was God (he swears on himself for instance) and says things like “The Great Being sayeth.” He may not have thought he was God but he did think he had a direct connection to the source of all truth and existence itself and that this was constant! (Many Baha’is believe one should pray to Baha’ullah – such a great soul – he can hear and answer all those prayers!) Pretty heady stuff.

    I think its natural for people to “lay all their affairs in God’s hands” once they believe this way. In fact Baha’is, of course are taught that its good the lay all one’s affairs in Gods hands. And it might be — but not with a simple shrug of the shoulders, there is much we must do before we put our affairs on God — or at least that seems logical — if logic has any place in this discussion.

    I think the Baha’i pov is an ancient, naturally quite unscientific, way of viewing the world. So to me the Faith is good and bad – it has its modern day plan (time for nations to unite and everyone to unite… ) Lots of very good and timeless advice (Process a pure, kindly and radiant heart…) and lots of superstition regarding tests and divine reward and punishment.

    The teachings about Manifestations lesser and greater, infallibility of various kinds, numerology and talismans (The Bab spent a lot of time designing them I’ve read) are attempts to explain the mystical essence of being to the masses — and of course once adopted they engender superstition and mental laziness in most people. (I think its because either these teachings are superstition or their meaning goes over most heads — probably a combination of the two)

    Now we have Ruhi and Bahai fundamentalism — the kinds of things we get in most organized religions.

    So I’d say when you hear — “your illness is a test my dear” — I’d say — you are a member of an organized religion of a certain kind — what do you expect?

    Peace,
    Frank

    P.S. I always wondered why The Bab, with His direct connection to God and all, needed a talisman. Are the reports of his fascination with them incorrect? Does anybody know?

    Thanks,
    Frank

  • Craig Parke

    Back to this topic after being off list tending to a business partner’s father passing away last week. He and his wife are doing OK in dealing with this change in life although the shock has been difficult as it always is for everyone.

    I do not think “God” (the Infinit Cosmic System of the Creation) tests individuals at all. I think everybody on this planet is taking their individual existence way too seriously. I think the Cosmic System tests spiritual archetypes. That is a much more interesting and productive way to look at it. There are certain archetypes that one should avoid becomming because those archetypes are “test magnets”. The are existences of certain spiritual states that are detremental. If life is going badly, write yourself a better movie part for yourself. Change you spiritual state. Change you archetype. The Hindu’s have a board game about this called Layla I think. It became the British game snakes and ladders. It teaches you about spiritual states and the next “snake” or “ladder” (going up or down “test” in life) that has the highest probability to hit you next because of your spiritual state. I think that is all that is meant here. In that sense “God” does NOT want to send you tests! He/She/It just wants you to get your head out of that posterior tunnell and move to a better place of insight. Change your archetype. That is the more useful teaching. I agree with St. Paul on this one: “God is no respector of persons.” It ain’t personal at all. It is the archetype that gets the “test”.

  • Craig Parke

    Back to this topic after being off list tending to a business partner’s father passing away last week. He and his wife are doing OK in dealing with this change in life although the shock has been difficult as it always is for everyone.

    I do not think “God” (the Infinit Cosmic System of the Creation) tests individuals at all. I think everybody on this planet is taking their individual existence way too seriously. I think the Cosmic System tests spiritual archetypes. That is a much more interesting and productive way to look at it. There are certain archetypes that one should avoid becomming because those archetypes are “test magnets”. The are existences of certain spiritual states that are detremental. If life is going badly, write yourself a better movie part for yourself. Change you spiritual state. Change you archetype. The Hindu’s have a board game about this called Layla I think. It became the British game snakes and ladders. It teaches you about spiritual states and the next “snake” or “ladder” (going up or down “test” in life) that has the highest probability to hit you next because of your spiritual state. I think that is all that is meant here. In that sense “God” does NOT want to send you tests! He/She/It just wants you to get your head out of that posterior tunnell and move to a better place of insight. Change your archetype. That is the more useful teaching. I agree with St. Paul on this one: “God is no respector of persons.” It ain’t personal at all. It is the archetype that gets the “test”.

  • Aharen

    This is interesting because I have recently been going through this internally. I have been a Bahai for a few years…I come from a family of Bahais (all inactive) but I declared and have been somewhat active while remaining incredibly human, lol, ehem. But I have noticed that when something bad happens to me the first thing I think is “what did I do wrong? why is God punishing me?” I try to take it in stride and realize that’s just the way the cookie crumbles…it is not because I wasn’t good enough. It hits me every time though. Recently, I helped my husband prepare a resume for a very important job, one that would significantly improve our lives. I, of course, asked God to give my husband the job. When we found out that not only did he not get the job, but that someone else who he works with and who is not as qualified as my husband got it, it was a major blow. I thought, “sometimes God says no”, and then, “I must have done something wrong, God is invested in keeping us from financial success”, then I remembered the Bahai saying…”it is a test” and that sometimes tests are from God but mostly they are from your own spiritual error. Well, my husband is not a Bahai and I recently asked him to consider it so I thought “is this a test from God for my husband to show him that he should become a Bahai if he wants success?” That didn’t feel right either and then I thought “ahh, this is a test to see if I can take a major emotional blow to our families pride and realize it has absolutely nothing to do with me or my husband (except that he needs to learn to be more aggressive in business) Finally, I decided I could use this as a lesson in detachment and in marital support which may or may not have anything to do with God, but I have to honestly say that I hope God is (through those mysterious ways) somehow guiding our lives. I suspect people who say â€?it is a test,â€? or â€?that it is God’s willâ€? are just looking for comfort in an overwhelming world, and using it as a polite Bahai-approved conversational response, who knows what is really going on in their heads, and so what anyway? I believe we all do what we do to get by emotionally. But you are right that people should decide what, if any, actions led up to the event. If it was purely accidental then why not say â€?it is God’s willâ€? for it is God’s will that two objects colliding at high speeds will cause damage to said objects, if you believe that the laws of the physical universe are God’s will, right?

    P.S. I just discovered this blog and read the interestig article from the cult studies mag, thanks for putting it up.

    ~Aharen

  • Aharen

    This is interesting because I have recently been going through this internally. I have been a Bahai for a few years…I come from a family of Bahais (all inactive) but I declared and have been somewhat active while remaining incredibly human, lol, ehem. But I have noticed that when something bad happens to me the first thing I think is “what did I do wrong? why is God punishing me?” I try to take it in stride and realize that’s just the way the cookie crumbles…it is not because I wasn’t good enough. It hits me every time though. Recently, I helped my husband prepare a resume for a very important job, one that would significantly improve our lives. I, of course, asked God to give my husband the job. When we found out that not only did he not get the job, but that someone else who he works with and who is not as qualified as my husband got it, it was a major blow. I thought, “sometimes God says no”, and then, “I must have done something wrong, God is invested in keeping us from financial success”, then I remembered the Bahai saying…”it is a test” and that sometimes tests are from God but mostly they are from your own spiritual error. Well, my husband is not a Bahai and I recently asked him to consider it so I thought “is this a test from God for my husband to show him that he should become a Bahai if he wants success?” That didn’t feel right either and then I thought “ahh, this is a test to see if I can take a major emotional blow to our families pride and realize it has absolutely nothing to do with me or my husband (except that he needs to learn to be more aggressive in business) Finally, I decided I could use this as a lesson in detachment and in marital support which may or may not have anything to do with God, but I have to honestly say that I hope God is (through those mysterious ways) somehow guiding our lives. I suspect people who say â€?it is a test,â€? or â€?that it is God’s willâ€? are just looking for comfort in an overwhelming world, and using it as a polite Bahai-approved conversational response, who knows what is really going on in their heads, and so what anyway? I believe we all do what we do to get by emotionally. But you are right that people should decide what, if any, actions led up to the event. If it was purely accidental then why not say â€?it is God’s willâ€? for it is God’s will that two objects colliding at high speeds will cause damage to said objects, if you believe that the laws of the physical universe are God’s will, right?

    P.S. I just discovered this blog and read the interestig article from the cult studies mag, thanks for putting it up.

    ~Aharen

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    Aharen, welcome and thanks for sharing your thoughts.
    I do agree with you that for the most part when people slap on the label of tests or God’s will on everything they are trying to come to grips with a challenge and they find that comforting. But that isn’t a really conscious way of living is it? It reduces God to a crutch and has the risk of inducing a certain learned helplessness in us.

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    Aharen, welcome and thanks for sharing your thoughts.
    I do agree with you that for the most part when people slap on the label of tests or God’s will on everything they are trying to come to grips with a challenge and they find that comforting. But that isn’t a really conscious way of living is it? It reduces God to a crutch and has the risk of inducing a certain learned helplessness in us.

  • Concourse on Low

    I absolutely loathe those “inspirational” posters they put up in corporate offices, but I think a quote from one of them is quite apt here.

    “God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; the courage to change the things I can; and the wisdom to know the difference.” –Reinhold Niebuhr

    Baquia’s post and the final clause in said quote both highlight the basic epistemological problem of how one is to distinguish between divinely precipitated challenges and those that are the result of our own actions.

    The whole Bahai test thing might be a good practical rule of thumb for getting through challenges but it’s very bad metaphysics, not to mention corrosive to the notion of personal responsibility.

  • Concourse on Low

    I absolutely loathe those “inspirational” posters they put up in corporate offices, but I think a quote from one of them is quite apt here.

    “God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; the courage to change the things I can; and the wisdom to know the difference.” –Reinhold Niebuhr

    Baquia’s post and the final clause in said quote both highlight the basic epistemological problem of how one is to distinguish between divinely precipitated challenges and those that are the result of our own actions.

    The whole Bahai test thing might be a good practical rule of thumb for getting through challenges but it’s very bad metaphysics, not to mention corrosive to the notion of personal responsibility.

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    Then you would love DEmotivators

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    Then you would love DEmotivators

  • Concourse on Low

    You, my friend, have made my day! Great link :) It’ll certainly “test” my ability to avoid web-based procrastination.

  • Concourse on Low

    You, my friend, have made my day! Great link :) It’ll certainly “test” my ability to avoid web-based procrastination.

  • Aharen

    I believe it is part of the process of becoming conscious. To question at all is the first step. I also believe you can’t really know what is going on within someone’s heart and mind unless you have an intimate relationship with them. Why should one person’s inability to be as I am cause diress? I’d rather try compassion and give them benefit of doubt.

    Maybe God (or your higher self, or the universe or the cosmic conciousness, or karma) is shoving it in your face (not sure how often you experience said annoyance) to see if you can learn to let go of your judgement. Or is that a test? JK.

    “COMPROMISE: Let’s agree to respect each other’s views, no matter how wrong your’s may be.”

  • Aharen

    I believe it is part of the process of becoming conscious. To question at all is the first step. I also believe you can’t really know what is going on within someone’s heart and mind unless you have an intimate relationship with them. Why should one person’s inability to be as I am cause diress? I’d rather try compassion and give them benefit of doubt.

    Maybe God (or your higher self, or the universe or the cosmic conciousness, or karma) is shoving it in your face (not sure how often you experience said annoyance) to see if you can learn to let go of your judgement. Or is that a test? JK.

    “COMPROMISE: Let’s agree to respect each other’s views, no matter how wrong your’s may be.”

  • Craig Parke

    I second what Concourse on Low wrote!

    What a great site!

    I love it!

    Despair, Inc. !!!

    Brilliant!

    I am sending this link to all of my work mates including management! We love the company we are all working in because this attitude really fits in here right from the CEO on down!

    I love the one (“MOTIVATION”) that says:
    “If a pretty poster and a cute saying are all it takes to motivate you, you probably have a very easy job. The kind robots will be doing soon.”

    Or maybe a custom one: “If you need a glossy photo with a corporate slogan to motivate you, you probably shouldn’t be working here.”

    The beauty of our software that we write and maintain ourselves in our crafted nitch in the medical insurance industry is now handling $41 million dollars in business (and growing) from a start-up! Deeds not words! We survived two idiotic Wall Street deals that went completely into the ground by big money executive types that did not know the business or the product where the rubber meets the road.

    The people in Boston and Dallas that took our jobs when they pulled the pin out of the map of our major city are now all out on the street un-employed and we are back in business behind big venture capital money with our sales guys now vacuuming their now unemployed former sales guy’s Rolodexes!

    What goes around comes around when karmas collide! Glossy Corporate Motivational Plaques won’t help someone if their company is being run into the ground by clueless dolts and intelligence impaired executive hacks who have not paid their dues in life!

    Nor countries run by gentleman “C” character impaired dysfunctional liars from Yale.

    And I will soon be getting a raise in my job!

    YAY!

  • Craig Parke

    I second what Concourse on Low wrote!

    What a great site!

    I love it!

    Despair, Inc. !!!

    Brilliant!

    I am sending this link to all of my work mates including management! We love the company we are all working in because this attitude really fits in here right from the CEO on down!

    I love the one (“MOTIVATION”) that says:
    “If a pretty poster and a cute saying are all it takes to motivate you, you probably have a very easy job. The kind robots will be doing soon.”

    Or maybe a custom one: “If you need a glossy photo with a corporate slogan to motivate you, you probably shouldn’t be working here.”

    The beauty of our software that we write and maintain ourselves in our crafted nitch in the medical insurance industry is now handling $41 million dollars in business (and growing) from a start-up! Deeds not words! We survived two idiotic Wall Street deals that went completely into the ground by big money executive types that did not know the business or the product where the rubber meets the road.

    The people in Boston and Dallas that took our jobs when they pulled the pin out of the map of our major city are now all out on the street un-employed and we are back in business behind big venture capital money with our sales guys now vacuuming their now unemployed former sales guy’s Rolodexes!

    What goes around comes around when karmas collide! Glossy Corporate Motivational Plaques won’t help someone if their company is being run into the ground by clueless dolts and intelligence impaired executive hacks who have not paid their dues in life!

    Nor countries run by gentleman “C” character impaired dysfunctional liars from Yale.

    And I will soon be getting a raise in my job!

    YAY!

  • Dancing Bear

    Oewww, that’s harsh. It doesn’t stop, it starts or begins. If one doesn’t, than it was really a declaration.

  • Dancing Bear

    Oewww, that’s harsh. It doesn’t stop, it starts or begins. If one doesn’t, than it was really a declaration.

  • peyamb

    As someone who is Persian and has been the recipient of “it’s God’s will to be tested” (for being gay), I’ve always found it an irritating aspect of my culture. It really is cultural- not just persian Bahai, but also Muslim. Personally, I believe God is a force of hope/inspiration to focus on in both the good times and the bad. We can focus on God and grow from both the ups and downs in life, or choose not to grow. It’s that simple. I chose to see the “up” of being gay as a wonderful blessing from God!
    Btw, as much as certian Persian aspects irritate the heck out of me, I can’t give up the food either, so I put up with it sometimes. :o)

  • peyamb

    As someone who is Persian and has been the recipient of “it’s God’s will to be tested” (for being gay), I’ve always found it an irritating aspect of my culture. It really is cultural- not just persian Bahai, but also Muslim. Personally, I believe God is a force of hope/inspiration to focus on in both the good times and the bad. We can focus on God and grow from both the ups and downs in life, or choose not to grow. It’s that simple. I chose to see the “up” of being gay as a wonderful blessing from God!
    Btw, as much as certian Persian aspects irritate the heck out of me, I can’t give up the food either, so I put up with it sometimes. :o)

  • Concourse on Low

    Check out the program – a lot of interesting abstracts.

    http://www.bahai-studies.ca/conferences.php

  • Concourse on Low

    Check out the program – a lot of interesting abstracts.

    http://www.bahai-studies.ca/conferences.php

  • http://www.popgoestheweiner.blogspot.com naz sangrila

    on the subconcious level, labelling everything or worse, mishaps and failures as the will of God or fate, is the homosapiens’ manner of pushing the blame to the divine. I think its time we learn to take the blame for our hiccups. Just a thought. Cheers!

  • http://www.popgoestheweiner.blogspot.com naz sangrila

    on the subconcious level, labelling everything or worse, mishaps and failures as the will of God or fate, is the homosapiens’ manner of pushing the blame to the divine. I think its time we learn to take the blame for our hiccups. Just a thought. Cheers!

  • birdie

    I think that having an attitude that helps you approach difficulties as the Will of God is useful, if, at all levels, not entirely the case; it helps us go through them and learn something. First, we live in a world that teaches that the individual is single, alone and lowly only if he’s been silly. Humility is honoured everywhere on t.v., in organisations, at board meetings, but the praise is faint, if one is actually humble, one is side-lined fairly quickly by the movers and shakers as someone who doesn’t have the drive, doesn’t meet the criteria. And so, if we can have a humble approach to our difficulties, we are open to learning from them.

    That every little thing is the Will of God can, I think, only be in that the world was set in motion and it’s a universe of possibilities all brought about by God in whatever and whenever the beginning was. It can be good, all things such as free will and the randomness of the world around us considered, and in the same way, it can be tough. If we could identify something as a test, do we do better in facing it? If we identify something as a simple twist of fate, is it less difficult? Don’t we need the same positive outlook and sense of sturdiness in order to come through it well?

    In specific, our difficulties are down to many things – our decisions, our priorities, our struggles, and no one, not even ourselves, can determine the merit of how we meet all these things. That we’ve accepted the fundamentals of a Faith that can heal the ills of the world, spiritual and so, practical, means we have agreed to work on it. If we run into things that hinder us or frustrate us, our daily prayer – since we’ve accepted that our essence is spirit – is to give us the only blind faith in which we are to indulge – that of looking to the principles for answers, and if we are unable to understand a solution at the time, the steadfastness to believe in our initial recognition of the Manifestation for today, to be humble enough to hope to understand eventually.

    There are very down to earth things we can apply to keep a balance in our lives; and there are those mystical Writings that are to keep us stretching, evolving in our understanding.

    That cultural difficulties get us down is no surprise – look at the world and how well it deals with cultural differences. It’s not easy. With humility comes an attitude of open-mindedness, and if we are openminded, we can learn. If we feel like dupes each time we run into something really difficult, how can we go forward? How then can we give anyone the benefit of the doubt necessary to letting go of self and being right and allowing for differences?

    I too have found that with Ruhi came a fundamentalism and a propensity for community members to be beating one another over the head with information, in essence, taking on the responsibility of other peoples’ spiritual condition, and as though others couldn’t possibly understand something so simple. It’s a wanting in the individual – there will always be that, relatively speaking. For me, someone who has always had a deep sense of inadequacey, well, it’s been good for me to be able to turn to my prayers each time I’ve been on the verge of telling someone what they could do with Ruhi.

    The old thinking that we do this or we are nothing in the next world, can only serve to remind us that with this desperately needed Dispensation, the world has only crossed the threshold into adulthood, and the habits of the centuries of needing to think about our own spiritual skins if we are to do the right thing will pass very slowly into history, for look at the cultures that have that deeply rooted in them – there is perhaps none that escaped it that was one of the “mainstream”. First Nations all over the world may not have succumbed to this – they’ve had their own brand of decadency, but perhaps not that one. Naturally, humanity is on the road to knowing that we do the right thing for the sake of God – one way of saying that we do the right thing because it’s the right thing to do.

    Entering into a world culture will leave many people by the wayside, wondering why they don’t get it. But that’s not gone untold. Shoghi Effendi said people would wash in and out of the Faith like the tides. I think that has to do with our sense of beign right or wrong and how attached we are to those things right now. Very attached, it will severe our ties with the thing we need most: connection to that spirit that will bind us closely with our fellow world citizens. Teenagers emotionally, all of us really. And none lost, only detoured. All the worlds of God stretch ahead of us.

    As a grandmother, I’m coming to be less casual about my spiritual state in terms of the more forgiving understanding that I’ve come to appreciate about the nature of our evolution through this world and those to come, not because for a moment I don’t believe in my spiritual future but in that I’d like for my grandchildren to recognize me in those worlds of God. If limbs are chopped from a tree, others grow, but never that one that’s gone. Living continues but it’s altered.

    Nothing is simple, there is no one line answer in these matters, we can spend all our ives searching for one, only to find that we need to think each and every day we are alive. The histories of the cultures of the world are staggered and crossed. So many in the world have suffered culturally and prevailed, so many have suffered as individuals in a culture and avoided bitterness, so many have prospered with no effort and inexplicably come out of it decent, empathetic people who are good for the world around them – these are mysteries to ponder in such times as ours.

    All of this, all of the doubt, the fear of being duped, the difficulties inherent in not understanding being translated into “must be wrong”, it’s all organic and the way humanity passes from one phase of it’s story to another. If we were all really dull, our history would be less remarkable in both it’s accomplishments and it’s turmoil. In our belief or in our doubt, we are all symptoms of our times and undistinguished in these things, but rather, just living in the world as best we can.

    With all, the entire world has a spiritual history and we have a spiritual future together. Baha’is, people who’ve not accepted the Faith, we are all on the same spiritual continuum. And we have the need to become sturdy and tolerant – people will be stepping on our cultural toes for many years to come; is that to keep us from the truth?

  • birdie

    I think that having an attitude that helps you approach difficulties as the Will of God is useful, if, at all levels, not entirely the case; it helps us go through them and learn something. First, we live in a world that teaches that the individual is single, alone and lowly only if he’s been silly. Humility is honoured everywhere on t.v., in organisations, at board meetings, but the praise is faint, if one is actually humble, one is side-lined fairly quickly by the movers and shakers as someone who doesn’t have the drive, doesn’t meet the criteria. And so, if we can have a humble approach to our difficulties, we are open to learning from them.

    That every little thing is the Will of God can, I think, only be in that the world was set in motion and it’s a universe of possibilities all brought about by God in whatever and whenever the beginning was. It can be good, all things such as free will and the randomness of the world around us considered, and in the same way, it can be tough. If we could identify something as a test, do we do better in facing it? If we identify something as a simple twist of fate, is it less difficult? Don’t we need the same positive outlook and sense of sturdiness in order to come through it well?

    In specific, our difficulties are down to many things – our decisions, our priorities, our struggles, and no one, not even ourselves, can determine the merit of how we meet all these things. That we’ve accepted the fundamentals of a Faith that can heal the ills of the world, spiritual and so, practical, means we have agreed to work on it. If we run into things that hinder us or frustrate us, our daily prayer – since we’ve accepted that our essence is spirit – is to give us the only blind faith in which we are to indulge – that of looking to the principles for answers, and if we are unable to understand a solution at the time, the steadfastness to believe in our initial recognition of the Manifestation for today, to be humble enough to hope to understand eventually.

    There are very down to earth things we can apply to keep a balance in our lives; and there are those mystical Writings that are to keep us stretching, evolving in our understanding.

    That cultural difficulties get us down is no surprise – look at the world and how well it deals with cultural differences. It’s not easy. With humility comes an attitude of open-mindedness, and if we are openminded, we can learn. If we feel like dupes each time we run into something really difficult, how can we go forward? How then can we give anyone the benefit of the doubt necessary to letting go of self and being right and allowing for differences?

    I too have found that with Ruhi came a fundamentalism and a propensity for community members to be beating one another over the head with information, in essence, taking on the responsibility of other peoples’ spiritual condition, and as though others couldn’t possibly understand something so simple. It’s a wanting in the individual – there will always be that, relatively speaking. For me, someone who has always had a deep sense of inadequacey, well, it’s been good for me to be able to turn to my prayers each time I’ve been on the verge of telling someone what they could do with Ruhi.

    The old thinking that we do this or we are nothing in the next world, can only serve to remind us that with this desperately needed Dispensation, the world has only crossed the threshold into adulthood, and the habits of the centuries of needing to think about our own spiritual skins if we are to do the right thing will pass very slowly into history, for look at the cultures that have that deeply rooted in them – there is perhaps none that escaped it that was one of the “mainstream”. First Nations all over the world may not have succumbed to this – they’ve had their own brand of decadency, but perhaps not that one. Naturally, humanity is on the road to knowing that we do the right thing for the sake of God – one way of saying that we do the right thing because it’s the right thing to do.

    Entering into a world culture will leave many people by the wayside, wondering why they don’t get it. But that’s not gone untold. Shoghi Effendi said people would wash in and out of the Faith like the tides. I think that has to do with our sense of beign right or wrong and how attached we are to those things right now. Very attached, it will severe our ties with the thing we need most: connection to that spirit that will bind us closely with our fellow world citizens. Teenagers emotionally, all of us really. And none lost, only detoured. All the worlds of God stretch ahead of us.

    As a grandmother, I’m coming to be less casual about my spiritual state in terms of the more forgiving understanding that I’ve come to appreciate about the nature of our evolution through this world and those to come, not because for a moment I don’t believe in my spiritual future but in that I’d like for my grandchildren to recognize me in those worlds of God. If limbs are chopped from a tree, others grow, but never that one that’s gone. Living continues but it’s altered.

    Nothing is simple, there is no one line answer in these matters, we can spend all our ives searching for one, only to find that we need to think each and every day we are alive. The histories of the cultures of the world are staggered and crossed. So many in the world have suffered culturally and prevailed, so many have suffered as individuals in a culture and avoided bitterness, so many have prospered with no effort and inexplicably come out of it decent, empathetic people who are good for the world around them – these are mysteries to ponder in such times as ours.

    All of this, all of the doubt, the fear of being duped, the difficulties inherent in not understanding being translated into “must be wrong”, it’s all organic and the way humanity passes from one phase of it’s story to another. If we were all really dull, our history would be less remarkable in both it’s accomplishments and it’s turmoil. In our belief or in our doubt, we are all symptoms of our times and undistinguished in these things, but rather, just living in the world as best we can.

    With all, the entire world has a spiritual history and we have a spiritual future together. Baha’is, people who’ve not accepted the Faith, we are all on the same spiritual continuum. And we have the need to become sturdy and tolerant – people will be stepping on our cultural toes for many years to come; is that to keep us from the truth?

  • Will

    There are two types of Gods’ Will, to clarify what we’re talking about. One which is a phrase commonly used by individuals as an emotional crutch to justify the outcome of an event beyond their control. The second is that which has been sent down or revealed by the Manifestaions of God.
    I think sometimes we miss focusing on what the real test is when it comes to following Gods’ Will for instance lets take the case of you being late for a job interview and therefore you loose the job. In this case the attribute/virtue at test here is your tardiness, not the fact that the Unseen has placed barriers infront of you to make you miss the appointment.
    Even in the case of missing the appointment due to Gods’ intervention may show some wisdom in the future, like the next job you go to pays better. In reality if you have listened to the writings and taken to heart that you have to improve your virtues (in this case tardiness) then you will arrive at the next appointment on time and probably get the job.
    It’s easier to just blame or accept the Unseen when things don’t go right. Instead we should be looking at what attributes or virtues are at play and deal with them.
    That in a nutshell is what tests are all about. They are not divine interventions in a direct way but instead are simply the natural reaction to not following the Will of God laid out by the Prophets.

  • Will

    There are two types of Gods’ Will, to clarify what we’re talking about. One which is a phrase commonly used by individuals as an emotional crutch to justify the outcome of an event beyond their control. The second is that which has been sent down or revealed by the Manifestaions of God.
    I think sometimes we miss focusing on what the real test is when it comes to following Gods’ Will for instance lets take the case of you being late for a job interview and therefore you loose the job. In this case the attribute/virtue at test here is your tardiness, not the fact that the Unseen has placed barriers infront of you to make you miss the appointment.
    Even in the case of missing the appointment due to Gods’ intervention may show some wisdom in the future, like the next job you go to pays better. In reality if you have listened to the writings and taken to heart that you have to improve your virtues (in this case tardiness) then you will arrive at the next appointment on time and probably get the job.
    It’s easier to just blame or accept the Unseen when things don’t go right. Instead we should be looking at what attributes or virtues are at play and deal with them.
    That in a nutshell is what tests are all about. They are not divine interventions in a direct way but instead are simply the natural reaction to not following the Will of God laid out by the Prophets.

  • Robert Clifton

    A Christian tv program says :”Of course God loves you and you can count on that love no matter what you do.” Pretty hefty because that includes covenant breakers, thieves, and any other category you don’t especially care for, et al.
    But then what part of Gods creation does He not love? He loves you, me and the rest of the 6 billion.
    For me “God’s Will” is that this material universe will operate according to a set of rules laid down by God. What goes up comes down – unless you jump out of a gravitational pull. Thou shalt not kill – unless you want a drink of water. You will – unless.
    We (all six billion of us) are the children of God and we operate within the narrow parameters of being a human being. Our free will obtained when we ate the apple does not allow us to will ourself to be an elephant. Whether we want or not we operate within the rules.
    We choose our tests. Late for work, being nasty to others, sexual activity, not praying. None of those choices alters the universe universally. They do in the cause and effect scheme of things (hard determinism) make some of us more comfortable or less comfortable with those around us. We learn from our ‘mistakes’, our choices, our sins and we move on to ever higher understandings.
    We are children of God, not Adults of God, we are learning. I liked the prototypes statement above. Learn vicariously from Job, Abraham, Baha’u’llah. Nailed to a cross, chained in a dungeon? Don’t do this at home.
    If you have been chosing very difficult tests, choose easier ones, or as stated above take it as an up.
    My mamma used to read to me, then I read to her. In grade school I read Bambi, in middle school I read White Fang, in high school I read Shakespeare, well – you get the idea. Take your test and pick up the next book.
    And above all, enjoy!
    It is the will of God.

    Robert

  • Robert Clifton

    A Christian tv program says :”Of course God loves you and you can count on that love no matter what you do.” Pretty hefty because that includes covenant breakers, thieves, and any other category you don’t especially care for, et al.
    But then what part of Gods creation does He not love? He loves you, me and the rest of the 6 billion.
    For me “God’s Will” is that this material universe will operate according to a set of rules laid down by God. What goes up comes down – unless you jump out of a gravitational pull. Thou shalt not kill – unless you want a drink of water. You will – unless.
    We (all six billion of us) are the children of God and we operate within the narrow parameters of being a human being. Our free will obtained when we ate the apple does not allow us to will ourself to be an elephant. Whether we want or not we operate within the rules.
    We choose our tests. Late for work, being nasty to others, sexual activity, not praying. None of those choices alters the universe universally. They do in the cause and effect scheme of things (hard determinism) make some of us more comfortable or less comfortable with those around us. We learn from our ‘mistakes’, our choices, our sins and we move on to ever higher understandings.
    We are children of God, not Adults of God, we are learning. I liked the prototypes statement above. Learn vicariously from Job, Abraham, Baha’u’llah. Nailed to a cross, chained in a dungeon? Don’t do this at home.
    If you have been chosing very difficult tests, choose easier ones, or as stated above take it as an up.
    My mamma used to read to me, then I read to her. In grade school I read Bambi, in middle school I read White Fang, in high school I read Shakespeare, well – you get the idea. Take your test and pick up the next book.
    And above all, enjoy!
    It is the will of God.

    Robert

  • Andrew

    A good spiritual life is not dependent on others although it can be nurtured and supported by a positive community life. Religion becomes dysfunctional when is governance structure becomes autocratic and dictatorial. When the governance structure allows for the participation of all members, it tends to be more healthy and constructive. As young children who have found their own voice say, “You’re not the boss of me!”, a good spiritual life also recognizes that no cleric can be the boss of me without my consent and willingness to give up my exercising of my own will by submitting in obedience to the will of another.

    When parents say to a questioning teenager, “Do it because I say so!” it is like a cleric requiring blind allegiance from a disciple or follower. There is a fine line between cult like submission, and reverent obedience.

    The UUs governance structure is open, transparent, and democratic. For people who have been raised in other faith traditions it doesn’t seem very “religious”. If people turn to religion looking for answers from someone, or a group, who claims to speak for a higher power, they will be sorely disappointed with the Unitarian Universalists. UU is a faith for mature minds and hearts ready to take on the tough challenge and responsibility of trying to figure out with love, compassion, tolerance, and patience, the best way to live life.

    –David Markham

  • Andrew

    A good spiritual life is not dependent on others although it can be nurtured and supported by a positive community life. Religion becomes dysfunctional when is governance structure becomes autocratic and dictatorial. When the governance structure allows for the participation of all members, it tends to be more healthy and constructive. As young children who have found their own voice say, “You’re not the boss of me!”, a good spiritual life also recognizes that no cleric can be the boss of me without my consent and willingness to give up my exercising of my own will by submitting in obedience to the will of another.

    When parents say to a questioning teenager, “Do it because I say so!” it is like a cleric requiring blind allegiance from a disciple or follower. There is a fine line between cult like submission, and reverent obedience.

    The UUs governance structure is open, transparent, and democratic. For people who have been raised in other faith traditions it doesn’t seem very “religious”. If people turn to religion looking for answers from someone, or a group, who claims to speak for a higher power, they will be sorely disappointed with the Unitarian Universalists. UU is a faith for mature minds and hearts ready to take on the tough challenge and responsibility of trying to figure out with love, compassion, tolerance, and patience, the best way to live life.

    –David Markham

  • Craig Parke

    [quote comment=""]In the mid 1970′s when the Hand of the Cause of God Mr Faizi came to San Francisco for several days, he said that the Baha’i Writings had identified three mysteries — three things that would never be understood by human beings in this world. One was the suffering of innocents (Abdu’l-Baha comments on this in Some Answered Questions). At the moment I don’t remember the second one. The third was, that we can never know the degree to which our actions are our own will, or God’s will.[/quote]

    Brent,

    I read many of Mr. A.Q. Faizi’s talks and listened to tapes of them also. He was a good man. But what Hand of the Cause of God Mr. Faizi had to say about anything means absolutely nothing more than what anyone else says or thinks both back then, now, and in the future. Zero. Nada. Zippo. Zilch, To think otherwise is pure 100% pure idolatry and is completely agaoinst the Archetypal Teachings of Moses, Jesus, Mohammad, the Bab, and Baha’u’llah. It will not fly in this World Age.

    Secondly, according to the current version of the Administrative Order of the Baha’i Faith (specifically the Sacred Holy Word of His Holiness Peter Khan) anyone who questions anything that comes down from the UHJ is a “corrosive influence”. Conseqyently, there are people who post on this site who could be declared “CI”‘s at any time by first class postage (not by Certified or even Registered mail!). I would be very careful posting here lest a file be opened on you in Haifa.

    To all the Americans here: Wow! Wasn’t Thursday night something!

    I knew many American Baha’is in the 1960′s and 1970′s who had marched with MLK before they became Baha’is. I am so happy that many have lived to see this day. To all the black U.S. veterans here, I am so glad you have lived to see this day.

    Best regards to all!

  • Craig Parke

    [quote comment=""]In the mid 1970′s when the Hand of the Cause of God Mr Faizi came to San Francisco for several days, he said that the Baha’i Writings had identified three mysteries — three things that would never be understood by human beings in this world. One was the suffering of innocents (Abdu’l-Baha comments on this in Some Answered Questions). At the moment I don’t remember the second one. The third was, that we can never know the degree to which our actions are our own will, or God’s will.[/quote]

    Brent,

    I read many of Mr. A.Q. Faizi’s talks and listened to tapes of them also. He was a good man. But what Hand of the Cause of God Mr. Faizi had to say about anything means absolutely nothing more than what anyone else says or thinks both back then, now, and in the future. Zero. Nada. Zippo. Zilch, To think otherwise is pure 100% pure idolatry and is completely agaoinst the Archetypal Teachings of Moses, Jesus, Mohammad, the Bab, and Baha’u’llah. It will not fly in this World Age.

    Secondly, according to the current version of the Administrative Order of the Baha’i Faith (specifically the Sacred Holy Word of His Holiness Peter Khan) anyone who questions anything that comes down from the UHJ is a “corrosive influence”. Conseqyently, there are people who post on this site who could be declared “CI”‘s at any time by first class postage (not by Certified or even Registered mail!). I would be very careful posting here lest a file be opened on you in Haifa.

    To all the Americans here: Wow! Wasn’t Thursday night something!

    I knew many American Baha’is in the 1960′s and 1970′s who had marched with MLK before they became Baha’is. I am so happy that many have lived to see this day. To all the black U.S. veterans here, I am so glad you have lived to see this day.

    Best regards to all!

  • P

    To all the Americans here: Wow! Wasn’t Thursday night something!
    ————–
    If you think Thursday night was someting, wait ’til Nov.4th! Yes we can!!! :o)

  • P

    To all the Americans here: Wow! Wasn’t Thursday night something!
    ————–
    If you think Thursday night was someting, wait ’til Nov.4th! Yes we can!!! :o)

  • Desir0101

    Hello,
    You are right.
    Why then should pray for the Bahais persecution in Iran.
    If it’s God’s will. In the Bahai literature I read that the faith will boost up through successive persecution of the believers. I learned that the Bahai community around the world was dismayed with these sorrowful news.
    Or you should be happy God has an special eyes on you.
    Have chosen you among the people of the earth.

    Why go against God’s will through prayer meetings to stop it.

    But I deeply sympathize with the Bahais under persecution.

    I believe it’s action and reaction as it do exist in matters.Newton’s laws of motion.
    Shoghi Efendi may be right to say that 9 tenths of our problems come from ours and one tenths from God.
    I wouldlike to set a question to who consider as truly Bahai.
    Is it not your ardent wish to give your life to Bahaullah one day.

  • Eika demas

    Wow that was brilliant and well thougt out! I commend you for getting my full attention.