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	<title>Comments on: Its a little known fact. . .[2]</title>
	<link>http://bahairants.com/its-a-little-known-fact-2-48.html</link>
	<description>A personal Baha'i blog.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:22:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Baquia</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/its-a-little-known-fact-2-48.html#comment-55196</link>
		<dc:creator>Baquia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 02:03:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bahairants.com/its-a-little-known-fact-2-48.html#comment-55196</guid>
		<description>Brent, would you please be so kind as to provide a reference?
I'm assuming it isn't Kitab-i-Hearsay</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brent, would you please be so kind as to provide a reference?<br />
I&#8217;m assuming it isn&#8217;t Kitab-i-Hearsay</p>
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		<title>By: US NSA Loses Court Case Against Orthodox Baha&#8217;is at Baha&#8217;i Rants</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/its-a-little-known-fact-2-48.html#comment-49082</link>
		<dc:creator>US NSA Loses Court Case Against Orthodox Baha&#8217;is at Baha&#8217;i Rants</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:34:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bahairants.com/its-a-little-known-fact-2-48.html#comment-49082</guid>
		<description>[...] Baha&#8217;i related news and content from across the web to the &#8220;official&#8221; Baha&#8217;i pilgrimage website run by the UHJ? They don&#8217;t have any [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Baha&#8217;i related news and content from across the web to the &#8220;official&#8221; Baha&#8217;i pilgrimage website run by the UHJ? They don&#8217;t have any [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Where is the Garden of Ridvan? at Baha&#8217;i Rants</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/its-a-little-known-fact-2-48.html#comment-48796</link>
		<dc:creator>Where is the Garden of Ridvan? at Baha&#8217;i Rants</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:00:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bahairants.com/its-a-little-known-fact-2-48.html#comment-48796</guid>
		<description>[...] in Baghdad off and on for ten years, which is probably why He designated it as one of two sites for Baha&#8217;i pilgrimage. But the authorities became wary of Baha&#8217;u'llah&#8217;s growing influence so they once again [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] in Baghdad off and on for ten years, which is probably why He designated it as one of two sites for Baha&#8217;i pilgrimage. But the authorities became wary of Baha&#8217;u&#8217;llah&#8217;s growing influence so they once again [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Baquia</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/its-a-little-known-fact-2-48.html#comment-32860</link>
		<dc:creator>Baquia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 18:02:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bahairants.com/its-a-little-known-fact-2-48.html#comment-32860</guid>
		<description>Fitz,
you may have visited Haifa, but unless from there you teleported to Shiraz or Baghdad you didn't perform pilgrimage.

I do agree with you about the Arc terraces. I found them cold, almost sterile. They were cut, styled and controlled to such a degree that it felt almost plastic, not a living, breathing, alive "thing". I have never felt less in tune with nature, while around trees and plants. The whole thing was just a kitsch ordeal one has to undergo on the way to the Shrine of the Bab.

Now there was a powerful experience (shrine). Perhaps sometime I'll write about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fitz,<br />
you may have visited Haifa, but unless from there you teleported to Shiraz or Baghdad you didn&#8217;t perform pilgrimage.</p>
<p>I do agree with you about the Arc terraces. I found them cold, almost sterile. They were cut, styled and controlled to such a degree that it felt almost plastic, not a living, breathing, alive &#8220;thing&#8221;. I have never felt less in tune with nature, while around trees and plants. The whole thing was just a kitsch ordeal one has to undergo on the way to the Shrine of the Bab.</p>
<p>Now there was a powerful experience (shrine). Perhaps sometime I&#8217;ll write about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Fitz Grossman</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/its-a-little-known-fact-2-48.html#comment-32851</link>
		<dc:creator>Fitz Grossman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 02:57:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bahairants.com/its-a-little-known-fact-2-48.html#comment-32851</guid>
		<description>Words
what a mess they make

Teaching and Giving the Message are used interchangable but are worlds apart.

Proclamation is not teaching its giving the message.

I've been to all the places mentioned, but until then I never used the word Haj, now I do.

They are two Pilgrimages in Haifa one the holy sites, the other the Bricks of the arc.

The Bricks are distracting</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Words<br />
what a mess they make</p>
<p>Teaching and Giving the Message are used interchangable but are worlds apart.</p>
<p>Proclamation is not teaching its giving the message.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been to all the places mentioned, but until then I never used the word Haj, now I do.</p>
<p>They are two Pilgrimages in Haifa one the holy sites, the other the Bricks of the arc.</p>
<p>The Bricks are distracting</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/its-a-little-known-fact-2-48.html#comment-71</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Apr 2005 19:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bahairants.com/its-a-little-known-fact-2-48.html#comment-71</guid>
		<description>Oops, sorry, Bacquia. I messed up there. The last comment was from me, Alison</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, sorry, Bacquia. I messed up there. The last comment was from me, Alison</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/its-a-little-known-fact-2-48.html#comment-70</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Apr 2005 19:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bahairants.com/its-a-little-known-fact-2-48.html#comment-70</guid>
		<description>Great read again, Bacquia. Your messages sound like the ones I remember reading in the very early days of Talisman. I didn't know much back then, so most messages contained little known facts that I certainly didn't know! But in addition to that, the messages were put together in a constructive and educative way and with real thought. 

I think the blog medium is going to have its day now, and the discussion list medium is on the decline. The good thing about a blog over a discussion list is that opponents cannot steal your agenda. And people like yourself get to truly blossom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great read again, Bacquia. Your messages sound like the ones I remember reading in the very early days of Talisman. I didn&#8217;t know much back then, so most messages contained little known facts that I certainly didn&#8217;t know! But in addition to that, the messages were put together in a constructive and educative way and with real thought. </p>
<p>I think the blog medium is going to have its day now, and the discussion list medium is on the decline. The good thing about a blog over a discussion list is that opponents cannot steal your agenda. And people like yourself get to truly blossom.</p>
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		<title>By: Baquia</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/its-a-little-known-fact-2-48.html#comment-69</link>
		<dc:creator>Baquia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Apr 2005 19:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bahairants.com/its-a-little-known-fact-2-48.html#comment-69</guid>
		<description>Marco,

I'm afraid you didn't read what I wrote with enough attention. I didn't say that those words quoted from the website imply "that the pilgrimage to the Holy Land is a supreme obligation."

Here is what I did write:
&lt;I&gt;
"This excerpt is implying that a Baha'i visitor to the Holy Land is a pilgrim and the "supreme obligation" of all Baha'is who go, is to visit the shrines of the three central figures of the Faith. While visiting and spending time in reverent meditation and prayer at those special places is the choice of every Baha'i, it is wrong to imply or state that this is Baha'i pilgrimage."&lt;/I&gt;

The problem with referring to a trip to the Holy Land as "pilgrimage" is that it is wrong, according to what Baha'u'llah explicitely said. Pilgrimage is to, either, the House of the Bab in Shiraz or to the House of Baha'u'llah in Baghdad. Period.

As for your question why have I not contacted the UHJ to ask about this issue? What makes you think I haven't? Taking into account the fact that they move as fast as molasses on a January morning, I estimate that my great-grandchildren &lt;I&gt;may&lt;/I&gt; receive a vague, half-hearted attempt at an answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marco,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m afraid you didn&#8217;t read what I wrote with enough attention. I didn&#8217;t say that those words quoted from the website imply &#8220;that the pilgrimage to the Holy Land is a supreme obligation.&#8221;</p>
<p>Here is what I did write:<br />
<i><br />
&#8220;This excerpt is implying that a Baha&#8217;i visitor to the Holy Land is a pilgrim and the &#8220;supreme obligation&#8221; of all Baha&#8217;is who go, is to visit the shrines of the three central figures of the Faith. While visiting and spending time in reverent meditation and prayer at those special places is the choice of every Baha&#8217;i, it is wrong to imply or state that this is Baha&#8217;i pilgrimage.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>The problem with referring to a trip to the Holy Land as &#8220;pilgrimage&#8221; is that it is wrong, according to what Baha&#8217;u'llah explicitely said. Pilgrimage is to, either, the House of the Bab in Shiraz or to the House of Baha&#8217;u'llah in Baghdad. Period.</p>
<p>As for your question why have I not contacted the UHJ to ask about this issue? What makes you think I haven&#8217;t? Taking into account the fact that they move as fast as molasses on a January morning, I estimate that my great-grandchildren <i>may</i> receive a vague, half-hearted attempt at an answer.</p>
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		<title>By: Sigmund Effendi</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/its-a-little-known-fact-2-48.html#comment-68</link>
		<dc:creator>Sigmund Effendi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Apr 2005 13:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bahairants.com/its-a-little-known-fact-2-48.html#comment-68</guid>
		<description>Marco,

Good point! I spoke unclearly. What I meant was that the first level of meaning is, of course,  always literal. No one can deny that. I meant that everything then ascends to ever higher and higher refined levels of spiritual meaning based upon the spiritual understanding of the soul.

This is precisely how Baha'u'llah interprets many of the scriptures of other religions in the Kitab-I-Iqan. That the meanings are not literal at all on the deepest truths of the human race.

That was what I was trying to say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marco,</p>
<p>Good point! I spoke unclearly. What I meant was that the first level of meaning is, of course,  always literal. No one can deny that. I meant that everything then ascends to ever higher and higher refined levels of spiritual meaning based upon the spiritual understanding of the soul.</p>
<p>This is precisely how Baha&#8217;u'llah interprets many of the scriptures of other religions in the Kitab-I-Iqan. That the meanings are not literal at all on the deepest truths of the human race.</p>
<p>That was what I was trying to say.</p>
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