Maxwell Baha’i School Closes

BREAKING NEWS

14 November 2007

Students, Staff, Parents and Supporters of Maxwell International School

Dear Friends,
Following extensive consultation and after sharing its concerns with the Universal House of Justice, the National Spiritual Assembly has taken the very difficult decision to close the Maxwell International School at the end of the current academic year.

When Maxwell opened 19 years ago, it was with the clear expectation that the school would quickly become self-sustaining and would not draw on the general funds of the Baha’i Faith. Sadly, this has not been the case, in spite of dedicated efforts by so many, and current projections indicate that the financial challenge facing the school will worsen. It was in light of these financial realities that the National Assembly made the decision, with heavy heart, to close the school.

In recognition of the sadness the school’s closing will bring to the family of students, parents and staff at Maxwell, the Assembly has asked two of its members to meet with the Maxwell school community to answer questions and to discuss the decision.

The National Spiritual Assembly deeply appreciates the sacrifice, commitment and vision that have built an excellent school whose achievements will be remembered for generations to come. May this assurance sustain all of Maxwell’s steadfast supporters and allow this year, with its high and united spirit, to fulfill its brilliant promise.

With loving greetings,
NATIONAL SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY OF THE BAHA’IS OF CANADA
Karen McKye,
Secretary

cc: National Spiritual Assembly (9)

*********
16 November 2007 / 13 Power 164

Dear Baha’i Friends,
Three members of the National Spiritual Assembly have just met with staff, students and supporters of Maxwell International School to convey the attached message which we now hasten to share with you.

As the letter states, the National Assembly has made this decision about Maxwell’s future with heavy heart and asks that you remember Maxwell’s wonderful school community in your prayers.

With loving Baha’i greetings,
Karen McKye, Secretary

Enclosure
cc:
Board of Trustees of Huququ’llah in Canada
Counsellors S. Birkland, A. Boyles, D. Scott
National Spiritual Assembly (9)
All Regional Baha’i Councils
All Auxiliary Board members
All National Committees and Agencies

Document:
Letter From National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha’is of Canada conveying news of closure of Maxwell International Baha’i School (PDF)

*********

maxwell-bahai-school

Sigh.

It was only 3 years ago (almost to the day) that I heard the news that Landegg Academy in Switzerland was being closed. For obvious reasons it has no functioning website now. You may view their site in a limited fashion through Archive.org’s cache. Many Baha’is had high hopes for it to grow and develop into a prestigious Baha’i University.

In the end, the foundation which held all the assets of the Academy went into bankruptcy, all the real estate and its collateral were confiscated by the holder of the mortgage (Union Bank of Switzerland) and auctioned off. The foundation which provided the legal structure for Landegg Academy was liquidated and wound up sometime in the spring of 2005.

The reason? It could not create a self-sustaining organization. The same fate is destined for Maxwell International Baha’i School.

The school was started about 20 years ago and named after the parents of May Maxwell, otherwise known as R??h?yyih Kh??num (wife of Shoghi Effendi, the Guardian of the Baha’i Faith). Just recently, the school decided to drop the “Baha’i” from its name and become simply Maxwell International School. The NSA didn’t outlined exactly when the school would be closed but it is safe to assume that this is the last scholastic year.

I can’t help but think that this is exacerbated by the deepening crisis in the Canadian Baha’i funds. Maxwell has had ample time to get on its feet. That they haven’t fully is the real reason why they will be closing. Yet I can’t help but think that if the NSA could afford it, they would continue to subsidize it as they had since its inception. That they simply can’t afford to, even though now we have a much larger Baha’i community in Canada than 20 years ago is telling.

Of course, we shouldn’t pick on Canada. The Baha’is of the United States have their own problems in this area. According to the US NSA, the budgetary shortfall was 50% (last time I checked).

This is yet another wake up call. The dwindling amount of funds is a HUGE blinking red light. It is the most indirect, yet unmistakable way of measuring the health of a Baha’i community. Don’t get me wrong. Life is not about money. And the Baha’i Faith isn’t about money, nor should it be. It is simply that when people feel engaged, inspired, moved, transformed, their whole life… including the financial portion is touched. And they naturally, happily choose to support their community through all methods (including cash).

The fast ebbing flow of funds is yet another symptom that the community is not going in the right path. Instead of blaming the members of the community and flagellating them to eke out more money, this should be taken for what it is: a non-verbal and collective message.

dry-river

What do you think? Is this a message? or are people just not “spiritual” enough to donate sacrificially? or can we blame the economy perhaps?

  • Sincere Friend

    This is probably more about demographics than about community failures, probably also some management problems. The schools that are making it these days either rely on the government, which is not an option here, or on a very strong alumni that provide endowments and pay the hefty tuition for their children to attend the same school. I think if this school were integrated with the program that supports the Iranian Bahai community to receive higher education through a network of overseas professors then perhaps it and other schools like it could be saved. Too many institutions are closing for this reason and a good look at and the right kind of international effort could save most of them.

  • Sincere Friend

    This is probably more about demographics than about community failures, probably also some management problems. The schools that are making it these days either rely on the government, which is not an option here, or on a very strong alumni that provide endowments and pay the hefty tuition for their children to attend the same school. I think if this school were integrated with the program that supports the Iranian Bahai community to receive higher education through a network of overseas professors then perhaps it and other schools like it could be saved. Too many institutions are closing for this reason and a good look at and the right kind of international effort could save most of them.

  • Sincere Friend

    I think if the school could stick it out for about ten more years the second generation would be coming on strong by then and it would be alright.

  • Sincere Friend

    I think if the school could stick it out for about ten more years the second generation would be coming on strong by then and it would be alright.

  • http://www.whitehanky.blogspot.com White Hanky

    Baquia:
    Considering that in the Official Organ was a brief mention of the Canadian NSA purchasing more property to ‘protect the future site of the Temple’ for 2 million dollars; one no longer wonders at the wisdom of fiscal responsibility when there really isn’t any.

    If the NSA truly believed in a ‘second harvest’ they would invest that sum in the school. That is where the True Temple is – in the hearts – or so we were taught to believe.

    Having known the area as I do and the original school founder I think sadly the real estate market out there has put dollar signs in front of the NSA’s eyes.

    Nice chunk of property = nice chunk of change to shore up the ever increasing shortfall of the Funds.
    I can see it all now and I sigh with you Baquia,

    Mawell Health Spa and Resort.

  • http://www.whitehanky.blogspot.com White Hanky

    Baquia:
    Considering that in the Official Organ was a brief mention of the Canadian NSA purchasing more property to ‘protect the future site of the Temple’ for 2 million dollars; one no longer wonders at the wisdom of fiscal responsibility when there really isn’t any.

    If the NSA truly believed in a ‘second harvest’ they would invest that sum in the school. That is where the True Temple is – in the hearts – or so we were taught to believe.

    Having known the area as I do and the original school founder I think sadly the real estate market out there has put dollar signs in front of the NSA’s eyes.

    Nice chunk of property = nice chunk of change to shore up the ever increasing shortfall of the Funds.
    I can see it all now and I sigh with you Baquia,

    Mawell Health Spa and Resort.

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    WHanky, that purchase was very astute and immediately profitable since the property was valued at $3M by the bank. So the NSA technically made $1M or 50% profit although they didn’t purchase it for that reason :)

    However, that extra property means extra costs, to develop, to maintain, etc… So eventhough it seems like a good decision now, only time will tell if it was wise.

    I also heard a rumour (so treat it as worthless) that there was a possibility of a mosque going in there. The NSA wanted a buffer between the Mashriqul’Adhkar and the ever encroaching urban sprawl.

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    WHanky, that purchase was very astute and immediately profitable since the property was valued at $3M by the bank. So the NSA technically made $1M or 50% profit although they didn’t purchase it for that reason :)

    However, that extra property means extra costs, to develop, to maintain, etc… So eventhough it seems like a good decision now, only time will tell if it was wise.

    I also heard a rumour (so treat it as worthless) that there was a possibility of a mosque going in there. The NSA wanted a buffer between the Mashriqul’Adhkar and the ever encroaching urban sprawl.

  • anna

    Not a huge contribution to the discussion…but I just wanted to say that I love your blog

  • anna

    Not a huge contribution to the discussion…but I just wanted to say that I love your blog

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    thank you anna :-)

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    thank you anna :-)

  • huianui

    nice blog.

    I was at Landegg in january 1995 where a new board of directives were announced headed by Dr. H. Danesh. His talk left me with the impression that the new direction (from artsy / process-oriented conferences until then) would be for making an impression that this was an academic institute. I don’t remember what he said now, but my feeling was, who would come here and why, because I could not see how it could be possible for Landegg to offer anything more than what any state institute could offer. I realise that they developed a peace studies programme, but it would be nice to see if there were some fruits to this. I mean I have came across Bahais who had done various courses, but none of them managed to give me much idea in terms of content. So I’m left with impression that for those with the money or were willing to pay the money, there were some nice social events and perhaps it might have been useful for networking.

    anyway…. my only memory of Landegg, I was only able to go once because I was offered a free place in exchange for giving a talk. The main speakers, all males, were also paid travel, but… I am grateful to the organizer of the time who got this unknown artist there to give a talk on the Bahai Assn for the Arts at a young professionals forum on the arts. It was one of the most inspiring conferences I’ve ever been too, and mainly, because they did get a number of artists there, like myself, offering free places in exchange for performances + showings. Artists normally cannot afford to go to Bahai conferences and it would be nice hear that changing one day :)

    Sadly, that was the final symposium as all the staff who organized it and the previous forums had been fired to save money.

    But you are right B, there is a crisis occuring within the Bahai Funds.

  • huianui

    nice blog.

    I was at Landegg in january 1995 where a new board of directives were announced headed by Dr. H. Danesh. His talk left me with the impression that the new direction (from artsy / process-oriented conferences until then) would be for making an impression that this was an academic institute. I don’t remember what he said now, but my feeling was, who would come here and why, because I could not see how it could be possible for Landegg to offer anything more than what any state institute could offer. I realise that they developed a peace studies programme, but it would be nice to see if there were some fruits to this. I mean I have came across Bahais who had done various courses, but none of them managed to give me much idea in terms of content. So I’m left with impression that for those with the money or were willing to pay the money, there were some nice social events and perhaps it might have been useful for networking.

    anyway…. my only memory of Landegg, I was only able to go once because I was offered a free place in exchange for giving a talk. The main speakers, all males, were also paid travel, but… I am grateful to the organizer of the time who got this unknown artist there to give a talk on the Bahai Assn for the Arts at a young professionals forum on the arts. It was one of the most inspiring conferences I’ve ever been too, and mainly, because they did get a number of artists there, like myself, offering free places in exchange for performances + showings. Artists normally cannot afford to go to Bahai conferences and it would be nice hear that changing one day :)

    Sadly, that was the final symposium as all the staff who organized it and the previous forums had been fired to save money.

    But you are right B, there is a crisis occuring within the Bahai Funds.

  • Sincere Friend

    There is a general financial crisis in north america that is tied up with the mortgage crisis that is currrently hitting the banks and financial institutions.

    This report may be interesting to some of you who are concerned about the current state of affairs.

    On a positive note the dollar does seem to have recovered some of its value in trading this past week and may signal that the markets are responding to the fact that the mortgage crisis is being faced rather than being avoided.

  • Sincere Friend

    There is a general financial crisis in north america that is tied up with the mortgage crisis that is currrently hitting the banks and financial institutions.

    This report may be interesting to some of you who are concerned about the current state of affairs.

    On a positive note the dollar does seem to have recovered some of its value in trading this past week and may signal that the markets are responding to the fact that the mortgage crisis is being faced rather than being avoided.

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    The economy is a very useful and ever ready scapegoat.

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    The economy is a very useful and ever ready scapegoat.

  • Sincere Friend

    My dear Baquia,

    Those that recall the financial affairs of the Faith during the Great Depression, when one dollar was a large amount of money, realized that certain projects, like the building of the Wilmette Temple, simply weren’t possible at the time due to outer circumstances, but that they would eventually be fulfilled and they were.

    For the information of the readers of this blog;

    Scapegoat is a
    –noun
    1. a person or group made to bear the blame for others or to suffer in their place.
    2. Chiefly Biblical. a goat let loose in the wilderness on Yom Kippur after the high priest symbolically laid the sins of the people on its head. Lev. 16:8,10,26.
    –verb (used with object)
    3. to make a scapegoat of: Strike leaders tried to scapegoat foreign competitors.

    It would seem that the use of the word is not exactly appropriate but perhaps you were intending to say that the Faith is a scapegoat for your own unhappiness?

  • Sincere Friend

    My dear Baquia,

    Those that recall the financial affairs of the Faith during the Great Depression, when one dollar was a large amount of money, realized that certain projects, like the building of the Wilmette Temple, simply weren’t possible at the time due to outer circumstances, but that they would eventually be fulfilled and they were.

    For the information of the readers of this blog;

    Scapegoat is a
    –noun
    1. a person or group made to bear the blame for others or to suffer in their place.
    2. Chiefly Biblical. a goat let loose in the wilderness on Yom Kippur after the high priest symbolically laid the sins of the people on its head. Lev. 16:8,10,26.
    –verb (used with object)
    3. to make a scapegoat of: Strike leaders tried to scapegoat foreign competitors.

    It would seem that the use of the word is not exactly appropriate but perhaps you were intending to say that the Faith is a scapegoat for your own unhappiness?

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    Your personal jab does disservice to your chosen name and so I will ignore it.

    The economy is doing just fine. Trying to blame the financial situation of the Baha’i funds which is one of chronic shortage and deficits on the economy is just that, scapegoating.

    We are not in Depression era financial difficulties. In fact, the US is enjoying one of the highest standards of living and per capita income.

    Rather than scapegoating the economy, or the sub-prime mess which has just recently happened by the way – whereas the funds difficulties have been ongoing for much much before that, it would be enlightening to lift the veils of prejudice and take a look at reality.

    Sure, it may be harsh, but what is to be gained by insisting to live in a dream world?

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    Your personal jab does disservice to your chosen name and so I will ignore it.

    The economy is doing just fine. Trying to blame the financial situation of the Baha’i funds which is one of chronic shortage and deficits on the economy is just that, scapegoating.

    We are not in Depression era financial difficulties. In fact, the US is enjoying one of the highest standards of living and per capita income.

    Rather than scapegoating the economy, or the sub-prime mess which has just recently happened by the way – whereas the funds difficulties have been ongoing for much much before that, it would be enlightening to lift the veils of prejudice and take a look at reality.

    Sure, it may be harsh, but what is to be gained by insisting to live in a dream world?

  • Sincere Friend

    The economy is in a terrible mess and the bubble is just about to break.
    We have a sustained trade deficit of over 5% of GNP which has been going on for almost a decade, the last country that tried that was England just before WWI and their collapse of empire. There is a government deficit almost of the same magnitude so that the combined deficit of the two is nearly one trillion dollars per year. Divide that number by the number of people in the US and you will see how badly we are bleeding economically. Then add the 10 trillion dollar mortgage problem, most of which has been caused by people drawing on their home equity to pay for credit card over drafts used to purchase alot of things they really didnt need but which distract them from their unhappiness. The total of all of that divided by the number of people in the country exceeds the average yearly earning rate. These are simple calculations based on readily available figures, so please realize the economy is not in good shape.

    To believe what the mainstream press is saying about the economy, or anything else for that matter, is to really be living in dream world.

    My intent in making the comment I did about your own happiness is to expose what seem to be your true motives in keeping this blog.

  • Sincere Friend

    The economy is in a terrible mess and the bubble is just about to break.
    We have a sustained trade deficit of over 5% of GNP which has been going on for almost a decade, the last country that tried that was England just before WWI and their collapse of empire. There is a government deficit almost of the same magnitude so that the combined deficit of the two is nearly one trillion dollars per year. Divide that number by the number of people in the US and you will see how badly we are bleeding economically. Then add the 10 trillion dollar mortgage problem, most of which has been caused by people drawing on their home equity to pay for credit card over drafts used to purchase alot of things they really didnt need but which distract them from their unhappiness. The total of all of that divided by the number of people in the country exceeds the average yearly earning rate. These are simple calculations based on readily available figures, so please realize the economy is not in good shape.

    To believe what the mainstream press is saying about the economy, or anything else for that matter, is to really be living in dream world.

    My intent in making the comment I did about your own happiness is to expose what seem to be your true motives in keeping this blog.

  • Sincere Friend

    The mainstream press serves its owners, who in large part are the people who sell the things that those of us who own homes buy on the credit that is extended against our mortgages by the banks that also own shares in those companies that sell us things. They are friends of course with the political people who dont want to upset the boat or end the party, so nothing that will really disturb the placid American sheep grazing in lala land is going to be put on the mainstream media channels with any kind of emphasis.

    The media are schilling the stock markets now to suck in all the middle class money that they can before they drop the equity markets after the election to blame it on the party that is coming into power, who by the way they are donating to to be sure that the setup works and they can sooner get another fellow into office like the one who is currently the resident denizen. All of their money is in short positions, out of real estate, and waiting for the deflationary slump that is imminent.

    Just to clarify…

  • Sincere Friend

    The mainstream press serves its owners, who in large part are the people who sell the things that those of us who own homes buy on the credit that is extended against our mortgages by the banks that also own shares in those companies that sell us things. They are friends of course with the political people who dont want to upset the boat or end the party, so nothing that will really disturb the placid American sheep grazing in lala land is going to be put on the mainstream media channels with any kind of emphasis.

    The media are schilling the stock markets now to suck in all the middle class money that they can before they drop the equity markets after the election to blame it on the party that is coming into power, who by the way they are donating to to be sure that the setup works and they can sooner get another fellow into office like the one who is currently the resident denizen. All of their money is in short positions, out of real estate, and waiting for the deflationary slump that is imminent.

    Just to clarify…

  • Brendan Cook

    Sincere Friend,

    Baquia is using the work ‘scapegoat’ in a manner which has long been perfectly legitimate. It’s even there in the definition you cited.

    1. a person or group made to bear the blame for others…

    When Baquia said you were making a the economy a scapegoat, he was saying that you were shifting the blame for problems in the American Baha’i community to the economy. But what makes your suggestion he has misused the work especially astounding is that you proceeded to use the word in *exactly* the same sense yourself. You told Baquia that he was a making “the Faith… a scapegoat for (his) own unhappiness.” Apart from the fact that you don’t know enough about Baquia to say if he is really unhappy, you are using the word, just as he did, to mean ‘shifting the blame’.

    Brendan

  • Brendan Cook

    Sincere Friend,

    Baquia is using the work ‘scapegoat’ in a manner which has long been perfectly legitimate. It’s even there in the definition you cited.

    1. a person or group made to bear the blame for others…

    When Baquia said you were making a the economy a scapegoat, he was saying that you were shifting the blame for problems in the American Baha’i community to the economy. But what makes your suggestion he has misused the work especially astounding is that you proceeded to use the word in *exactly* the same sense yourself. You told Baquia that he was a making “the Faith… a scapegoat for (his) own unhappiness.” Apart from the fact that you don’t know enough about Baquia to say if he is really unhappy, you are using the word, just as he did, to mean ‘shifting the blame’.

    Brendan

  • Sincere Friend

    Dear Brendan,

    With respect to your comment on the use of scapegoat, it refers to a living thing as in the definition “a person or group”.
    “The economy” is not a person or any group, it is an abstration of an aspect of the entirely of all financial and economic interactions. I would think that a better word to have used in the original comment that was made would have been “excuse”. That would have conveyed the proper meaning that I believe was intended without using an inflammatory noun.

    The use of the word scapegoat always implies that there is an impending persecution, as in the Bahais in Iran being used as scapegoats for the economic problems there.

    I dont know how the economy could rationally be used as a scapegoat. How is it possible to persecute the economy or any other abstraction? But to persecute living beings, yes, either as individuals or as a group, that is possible so I dont think that I can accept the use of scapegoat when suggesting that the economy is to be then persecuted. As an excuse yes, but not otherwise.

    With respect to our hosts happiness. I think that reading this blog, and comments, for the length of time that I have have given me a perspective to draw that conclusion and so I stand by my comment.

    Respectfully,

    SF

  • Sincere Friend

    Dear Brendan,

    With respect to your comment on the use of scapegoat, it refers to a living thing as in the definition “a person or group”.
    “The economy” is not a person or any group, it is an abstration of an aspect of the entirely of all financial and economic interactions. I would think that a better word to have used in the original comment that was made would have been “excuse”. That would have conveyed the proper meaning that I believe was intended without using an inflammatory noun.

    The use of the word scapegoat always implies that there is an impending persecution, as in the Bahais in Iran being used as scapegoats for the economic problems there.

    I dont know how the economy could rationally be used as a scapegoat. How is it possible to persecute the economy or any other abstraction? But to persecute living beings, yes, either as individuals or as a group, that is possible so I dont think that I can accept the use of scapegoat when suggesting that the economy is to be then persecuted. As an excuse yes, but not otherwise.

    With respect to our hosts happiness. I think that reading this blog, and comments, for the length of time that I have have given me a perspective to draw that conclusion and so I stand by my comment.

    Respectfully,

    SF

  • Robert Clifton

    Hello to all:

    Why are we discussing the U.S. Economy?
    There is a book called “Management in Turbulent Times” which points out that no matter the economy of the universe an entity must function within that economy – for better or for worse, and management determines success or failure.

    Mormanism, by a report on ABC this morning is growing.
    Might we return to the question – Why is Baha’i on a downslide?

    Have we all agreed that it is?

    Robert Clifton

  • Robert Clifton

    Hello to all:

    Why are we discussing the U.S. Economy?
    There is a book called “Management in Turbulent Times” which points out that no matter the economy of the universe an entity must function within that economy – for better or for worse, and management determines success or failure.

    Mormanism, by a report on ABC this morning is growing.
    Might we return to the question – Why is Baha’i on a downslide?

    Have we all agreed that it is?

    Robert Clifton

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    Not only is this an ad hominem, it is pure conjecture. What I write about here and the time I spend doing so is but a small fraction of my life.

    You are welcome to your own opinion, however erroneous and ignorant it may be, of course.

    This sort of personal jab is nothing new as I’ve come to expect it from fellow Baha’is who do not have an answer for the points that I bring up. They feel flabbergasted and unwilling to accept reality, lash out and insult me.

    My intent in making the comment I did about your own happiness is to expose what seem to be your true motives in keeping this blog.

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    Not only is this an ad hominem, it is pure conjecture. What I write about here and the time I spend doing so is but a small fraction of my life.

    You are welcome to your own opinion, however erroneous and ignorant it may be, of course.

    This sort of personal jab is nothing new as I’ve come to expect it from fellow Baha’is who do not have an answer for the points that I bring up. They feel flabbergasted and unwilling to accept reality, lash out and insult me.

    My intent in making the comment I did about your own happiness is to expose what seem to be your true motives in keeping this blog.

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    definition of scapegoat:

    A live goat over whose head Aaron confessed all the sins of the children of Israel on the Day of Atonement. The goat, symbolically bearing their sins, was then sent into the wilderness.

    Sincere Friend, I must confess you are absolutely right. There was no goat whatsoever in my comment. And as the strict definition refers to a goat, then I must be in the wrong.

    I will now go and administer the proper punishment to myself: a thorough reading of Ruhi Book #3

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    definition of scapegoat:

    A live goat over whose head Aaron confessed all the sins of the children of Israel on the Day of Atonement. The goat, symbolically bearing their sins, was then sent into the wilderness.

    Sincere Friend, I must confess you are absolutely right. There was no goat whatsoever in my comment. And as the strict definition refers to a goat, then I must be in the wrong.

    I will now go and administer the proper punishment to myself: a thorough reading of Ruhi Book #3

  • Brendan Cook

    ‘With respect to your comment on the use of scapegoat, it refers to a living thing as in the definition ?a person or group?.
    ?The economy? is not a person or any group, it is an abstration of an aspect of the entirely of all financial and economic interactions.’

    SF,

    If you don’t understand how a personified abstraction, such as ‘the economy’ or ‘history’ or ‘fortune’, can be used in the place of a person or group, you have a more serious problem. If you don’t understand how this is possible, you don’t understand how any language, English or otherwise is actually used.

    Brendan

  • Brendan Cook

    ‘With respect to your comment on the use of scapegoat, it refers to a living thing as in the definition ?a person or group?.
    ?The economy? is not a person or any group, it is an abstration of an aspect of the entirely of all financial and economic interactions.’

    SF,

    If you don’t understand how a personified abstraction, such as ‘the economy’ or ‘history’ or ‘fortune’, can be used in the place of a person or group, you have a more serious problem. If you don’t understand how this is possible, you don’t understand how any language, English or otherwise is actually used.

    Brendan

  • Sincere Friend

    Well Robert good to get things back on track, we did seem to be digressing into making unfounded assumptions about each other. Please forgive me friends if I have offended you.

    With respect to the question you pose, “Is it?”.

    From the perspective of my own life no it is definitely not. There are far more Bahais now, more communities, more LSAs than when I was born.
    Something on the order of a 20 fold increase.

    From the perspective of since the mid 70s early 80s, possibly somewhat in the US, but in other places no.

    From the perspective of since Ruhi started, possibly in the US, but elsewhere definitely not.

    I think its important to keep in mind when assessing growth to appreciate the time frame of overall growth and that growth very seldom takes place in a linear fashion. It often has a rythm that makes it jump upwards and then fall back in a curve or vice versa.
    Growth has pauses and consolidations in its breathing before it takes off again in the general trend direction. I think the growth of the Faith is similar to that. If you look at the period of the 10 year crusade when Bahais were sent to most of the countries of the earth that was a major upthrust and permitted, within a short time, the establishment of NSAs and then the election of the UHJ in 1963. I think we are in a stage of consolidation now where a new pattern is being established so that later growth can be supported.

    With respect to the Mormons with whom I am quite familiar. They have a very well organized cultural religious machine that spits out children 4-10 per family, missionaries – all those children who work for two years in their mission, and churches. They are kind of like the Southern Baptists in that regard and in that their organizational and promotional habits have become ingrained in their shared culture, some that hasnt quite happened yet in the Bahai Faith with the new Ruhi pattern. The old pattern of individual teaching is being replaced by the Ruhi system of general indoctrination, and those that felt more comfortable in the fireside, public teaching, deepening model are not so comfortable in the more generalized less personal Ruhi system.

    Surely someone will find irritation or offense with what I have just said so I will await with interest your critical comments…all in a good spirit as we participate in the adventure of the discovery of truth.

  • Sincere Friend

    Well Robert good to get things back on track, we did seem to be digressing into making unfounded assumptions about each other. Please forgive me friends if I have offended you.

    With respect to the question you pose, “Is it?”.

    From the perspective of my own life no it is definitely not. There are far more Bahais now, more communities, more LSAs than when I was born.
    Something on the order of a 20 fold increase.

    From the perspective of since the mid 70s early 80s, possibly somewhat in the US, but in other places no.

    From the perspective of since Ruhi started, possibly in the US, but elsewhere definitely not.

    I think its important to keep in mind when assessing growth to appreciate the time frame of overall growth and that growth very seldom takes place in a linear fashion. It often has a rythm that makes it jump upwards and then fall back in a curve or vice versa.
    Growth has pauses and consolidations in its breathing before it takes off again in the general trend direction. I think the growth of the Faith is similar to that. If you look at the period of the 10 year crusade when Bahais were sent to most of the countries of the earth that was a major upthrust and permitted, within a short time, the establishment of NSAs and then the election of the UHJ in 1963. I think we are in a stage of consolidation now where a new pattern is being established so that later growth can be supported.

    With respect to the Mormons with whom I am quite familiar. They have a very well organized cultural religious machine that spits out children 4-10 per family, missionaries – all those children who work for two years in their mission, and churches. They are kind of like the Southern Baptists in that regard and in that their organizational and promotional habits have become ingrained in their shared culture, some that hasnt quite happened yet in the Bahai Faith with the new Ruhi pattern. The old pattern of individual teaching is being replaced by the Ruhi system of general indoctrination, and those that felt more comfortable in the fireside, public teaching, deepening model are not so comfortable in the more generalized less personal Ruhi system.

    Surely someone will find irritation or offense with what I have just said so I will await with interest your critical comments…all in a good spirit as we participate in the adventure of the discovery of truth.

  • Robert Clifton

    I became a Baha’i in 1971.
    At that time there were a slew of social redirections under way. ( I wore plaid pants.) During those early years my individual personal teaching effort increased the UHJ Baha’i head count by more than a hundred. Then came the order to stop teaching and to ‘consolidate’. Since that date my efforts have resulted in zero declarations.
    I see not a decline but a halt in that scenario.
    In the 1990’s I was witness to Baha’i after Baha’i withdrawing for reasons various and sundry. (The actual count is 14)
    Then I bought a computer and in my never ending quest for information I ran across the Orthodox and Frank Schlatter. Once the UHJ found out that I was reading that material I was investigated. Because I would not reject their claims offhand I was ‘ex-enrolled’.
    Subtract one more. So I have seen first hand a decline in numbers in American Bahais west of the Mississippi.
    Not now a member of any group and associating with all groups I see a decline if not in numbers then in activity. The Tarbiyat have closed their admirable school as has the UHJ closed some of theirs.
    There is that report by a visitor to the India Temple where not a Baha’i could be found. There are an increasing number of Baha’is turning to Orthodox in both India and Africa. In Central America I have been taken to communities where I was told there used to be a big community, and we found maybe one person who said “Si! Soy Baha’i.”
    The waxing and waning of fortune is at play, of course, but I wonder why?

    Robert

  • Robert Clifton

    I became a Baha’i in 1971.
    At that time there were a slew of social redirections under way. ( I wore plaid pants.) During those early years my individual personal teaching effort increased the UHJ Baha’i head count by more than a hundred. Then came the order to stop teaching and to ‘consolidate’. Since that date my efforts have resulted in zero declarations.
    I see not a decline but a halt in that scenario.
    In the 1990’s I was witness to Baha’i after Baha’i withdrawing for reasons various and sundry. (The actual count is 14)
    Then I bought a computer and in my never ending quest for information I ran across the Orthodox and Frank Schlatter. Once the UHJ found out that I was reading that material I was investigated. Because I would not reject their claims offhand I was ‘ex-enrolled’.
    Subtract one more. So I have seen first hand a decline in numbers in American Bahais west of the Mississippi.
    Not now a member of any group and associating with all groups I see a decline if not in numbers then in activity. The Tarbiyat have closed their admirable school as has the UHJ closed some of theirs.
    There is that report by a visitor to the India Temple where not a Baha’i could be found. There are an increasing number of Baha’is turning to Orthodox in both India and Africa. In Central America I have been taken to communities where I was told there used to be a big community, and we found maybe one person who said “Si! Soy Baha’i.”
    The waxing and waning of fortune is at play, of course, but I wonder why?

    Robert

  • Ralph Dexter

    Dear Friends,
    I am saddened to hear about Maxwell closing. If you want something to survive and hopefully thrive, you have to support it. That includes mom and pop corner stores, Baha’i children’s classes, study circles, 19 Day Feasts, and ultimately the Baha’i Faith we all love.

    Something exciting is happening in Ecuador. Our Counsellor just got back from a consultation with the Universal House of Justice, and there is a big push to reach out to our community of interest and teach then directly about Baha’u’llah. Whatever the results (in our community they were fabulous), Baha’is who participate in these teaching campaigns receive that rush of spiritual confirmation and excitement that I personally haven’t felt since the early 1970’s. I can’t wait to see what happens next.
    With much love to all,
    Ralph

  • Ralph Dexter

    Dear Friends,
    I am saddened to hear about Maxwell closing. If you want something to survive and hopefully thrive, you have to support it. That includes mom and pop corner stores, Baha’i children’s classes, study circles, 19 Day Feasts, and ultimately the Baha’i Faith we all love.

    Something exciting is happening in Ecuador. Our Counsellor just got back from a consultation with the Universal House of Justice, and there is a big push to reach out to our community of interest and teach then directly about Baha’u’llah. Whatever the results (in our community they were fabulous), Baha’is who participate in these teaching campaigns receive that rush of spiritual confirmation and excitement that I personally haven’t felt since the early 1970’s. I can’t wait to see what happens next.
    With much love to all,
    Ralph

  • Robert Clifton

    hello Ralph,

    Congratulations. I am happy for you.
    Can you give any supportive data, such as how many towns and villages in Ecuador actually have assemblies or at least a Baha’i in them? Are you teaching the Ruhi method or have you devised something else? Are any of the Assemblies operating any social services projects such as teaching English as a second language and so on?

    What method are you using to get from village to village. How many foriegners/how many indigenous are doing the work? What kind of supplies and material do you need?

    Can you get any one to coraborate your report?

    Keep up the good work.

    Robert Clifton

  • Robert Clifton

    hello Ralph,

    Congratulations. I am happy for you.
    Can you give any supportive data, such as how many towns and villages in Ecuador actually have assemblies or at least a Baha’i in them? Are you teaching the Ruhi method or have you devised something else? Are any of the Assemblies operating any social services projects such as teaching English as a second language and so on?

    What method are you using to get from village to village. How many foriegners/how many indigenous are doing the work? What kind of supplies and material do you need?

    Can you get any one to coraborate your report?

    Keep up the good work.

    Robert Clifton

  • peyamb

    Sincere Falsehood said: From the perspective of my own life no it is definitely not. There are far more Bahais now, more communities, more LSAs than when I was born.
    Something on the order of a 20 fold increase.

    Hahaha. That’s a joke. I’ve seen nothing but stagnation in the Bahai community of N. America. The 80’s had the most tremendous growth (after multitudes of Iranians moved to the US), but then decline. So where do you live that you have seen such tremendous growth? probably some small town that started with 2 Bahais, and oooh, now you have 6!
    Oh, and as for the economy, who knows SF, maybe it’s gonna do bad or stay the same. But I’ll tell you this, I’m a Bahai who is doing ok financially, better than I have when I was giving tremendously to the fund. I haven’t given a dime for almost 10 years now. Not because of the economy, but because of what the Bahai community has become. Anyway, it’s all falling on deaf ears. You are either a plant to disrupt Baqui’s great site, or just so blinded by your fundamentalism, that you will never see. Either way life goes on…

  • peyamb

    Sincere Falsehood said: From the perspective of my own life no it is definitely not. There are far more Bahais now, more communities, more LSAs than when I was born.
    Something on the order of a 20 fold increase.

    Hahaha. That’s a joke. I’ve seen nothing but stagnation in the Bahai community of N. America. The 80’s had the most tremendous growth (after multitudes of Iranians moved to the US), but then decline. So where do you live that you have seen such tremendous growth? probably some small town that started with 2 Bahais, and oooh, now you have 6!
    Oh, and as for the economy, who knows SF, maybe it’s gonna do bad or stay the same. But I’ll tell you this, I’m a Bahai who is doing ok financially, better than I have when I was giving tremendously to the fund. I haven’t given a dime for almost 10 years now. Not because of the economy, but because of what the Bahai community has become. Anyway, it’s all falling on deaf ears. You are either a plant to disrupt Baqui’s great site, or just so blinded by your fundamentalism, that you will never see. Either way life goes on…

  • Sincere Friend

    With all due respect my dear Brother peyamb the perspective I speak of, for your clarification and those who read this most stimulating blod, preceeds the influx both of the 70s and the 80s. We must constantly keep in mind that the time frame of our own consciousness differs in its span of time from the time frame of the historical processes of religion. We humans have at maximum a 100 year or so time frame, usually more like 30 to 40 years from when we are conscious enough to think, and those who are younger 5 years is a long time. The minimum time frame of religion is 1000 years for the completion of its primary full cycle. I do beleive in the promises of Gods Messengers. Milneniums of time have shown them to be true. In the case of the growth of the Faith many of the promises of conditional upon our ability to enact love and unity in our communities.

    With respect to the economy, one has only to look at object measures but particularly where the people that run the world are putting their money. Most of them have moved out of real estate, which was so strong for so many years, into short market positions with hedge funds. Its known in some investment circles as the “vulture perch”. They are waiting for a fall that they have engineered, just as they engineered 9/11 to get their way with the sleeping public.

    With respect to your assumptions about me. I am just myself. No one but me determines what I do. I do believe in what the Writings say but that does not make one a fundamentalist in the way that one might attach the label to Christian fundamentalists. I suppose one has to understand what one believes before one can really be considered to be responsible for believing it. I think in that process is where many people come to view others as being of one perspective or another. Remember what I said in an earliet post, concepts are vehicles not destinations, and the flow of living consciousness is never static for long. What do you believe?

  • Sincere Friend

    With all due respect my dear Brother peyamb the perspective I speak of, for your clarification and those who read this most stimulating blod, preceeds the influx both of the 70s and the 80s. We must constantly keep in mind that the time frame of our own consciousness differs in its span of time from the time frame of the historical processes of religion. We humans have at maximum a 100 year or so time frame, usually more like 30 to 40 years from when we are conscious enough to think, and those who are younger 5 years is a long time. The minimum time frame of religion is 1000 years for the completion of its primary full cycle. I do beleive in the promises of Gods Messengers. Milneniums of time have shown them to be true. In the case of the growth of the Faith many of the promises of conditional upon our ability to enact love and unity in our communities.

    With respect to the economy, one has only to look at object measures but particularly where the people that run the world are putting their money. Most of them have moved out of real estate, which was so strong for so many years, into short market positions with hedge funds. Its known in some investment circles as the “vulture perch”. They are waiting for a fall that they have engineered, just as they engineered 9/11 to get their way with the sleeping public.

    With respect to your assumptions about me. I am just myself. No one but me determines what I do. I do believe in what the Writings say but that does not make one a fundamentalist in the way that one might attach the label to Christian fundamentalists. I suppose one has to understand what one believes before one can really be considered to be responsible for believing it. I think in that process is where many people come to view others as being of one perspective or another. Remember what I said in an earliet post, concepts are vehicles not destinations, and the flow of living consciousness is never static for long. What do you believe?

  • Sincere Friend

    9-11 EXPOSED

    Former Italian President Francesco Cossiga, who revealed the existence of Operation Gladio, has told Italy’s oldest and most widely read newspaper that the 9-11 terrorist attacks were run by the CIA and Mossad, and that this was common knowledge among global intelligence agencies.

    In what translates awkwardly into English, Cossiga told the newspaper Corriere della Sera:

    “All the [intelligence services] of America and Europe…know well that the disastrous attack has been planned and realized from the Mossad, with the aid of the Zionist world in order to put under accusation the Arabic countries and in order to induce the western powers to take part … in Iraq [and] Afghanistan.”

    Cossiga was elected president of the Italian Senate in July 1983 before winning a landslide election to become president of the country in 1985, and he remained until 1992.

    Cossiga’s tendency to be outspoken upset the Italian political establishment, and he was forced to resign after revealing the existence of, and his part in setting up, Operation Gladio.

    This was a rogue intelligence network under NATO auspices that carried out bombings across Europe in the 1960s, 1970s and ’80s.

    Gladio’s specialty was to carry out what they termed “false flag” operations—terror attacks that were blamed on their domestic and geopolitical opposition.

    In March 2001, Gladio agent Vincenzo Vinciguerra stated, in sworn testimony, ?You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple: to force … the public to turn to the state to ask for greater security.?

    Cossiga first expressed his doubts about 9-11 in 2001, and is quoted by 9-11 researcherWebster Tarpley saying “The mastermind of the attack must have been a sophisticated mind, provided with ample means not only to recruit fanatic kamikazes, but also highly specialized personnel. I add one thing: it could not be accomplished without infiltrations in the radar and flight security personnel.”

    Coming from a widely respected former head of state, Cossiga’s assertion that the 9-11 attacks were an inside job and that this is common knowledge among global intelligence agencies is illuminating.

    It is one more eye-opening confirmation that has not been mentioned by America’s propaganda machine in print or on TV.

    Nevertheless, because of his experience and status in the world, Cossiga cannot be discounted as a crackpot.

    AMERICAN FREE PRESS
    (Issue #52, December 24, 2007)

  • Sincere Friend

    9-11 EXPOSED

    Former Italian President Francesco Cossiga, who revealed the existence of Operation Gladio, has told Italy’s oldest and most widely read newspaper that the 9-11 terrorist attacks were run by the CIA and Mossad, and that this was common knowledge among global intelligence agencies.

    In what translates awkwardly into English, Cossiga told the newspaper Corriere della Sera:

    “All the [intelligence services] of America and Europe…know well that the disastrous attack has been planned and realized from the Mossad, with the aid of the Zionist world in order to put under accusation the Arabic countries and in order to induce the western powers to take part … in Iraq [and] Afghanistan.”

    Cossiga was elected president of the Italian Senate in July 1983 before winning a landslide election to become president of the country in 1985, and he remained until 1992.

    Cossiga’s tendency to be outspoken upset the Italian political establishment, and he was forced to resign after revealing the existence of, and his part in setting up, Operation Gladio.

    This was a rogue intelligence network under NATO auspices that carried out bombings across Europe in the 1960s, 1970s and ’80s.

    Gladio’s specialty was to carry out what they termed “false flag” operations—terror attacks that were blamed on their domestic and geopolitical opposition.

    In March 2001, Gladio agent Vincenzo Vinciguerra stated, in sworn testimony, ?You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple: to force … the public to turn to the state to ask for greater security.?

    Cossiga first expressed his doubts about 9-11 in 2001, and is quoted by 9-11 researcherWebster Tarpley saying “The mastermind of the attack must have been a sophisticated mind, provided with ample means not only to recruit fanatic kamikazes, but also highly specialized personnel. I add one thing: it could not be accomplished without infiltrations in the radar and flight security personnel.”

    Coming from a widely respected former head of state, Cossiga’s assertion that the 9-11 attacks were an inside job and that this is common knowledge among global intelligence agencies is illuminating.

    It is one more eye-opening confirmation that has not been mentioned by America’s propaganda machine in print or on TV.

    Nevertheless, because of his experience and status in the world, Cossiga cannot be discounted as a crackpot.

    AMERICAN FREE PRESS
    (Issue #52, December 24, 2007)

  • Robert Clifton

    Hello Sincere Friend:
    It appears that you and I this time are miles apart.
    I found these at the Wikepedia. Now I don’t put too much stock in that vehicle but it does garner comments from both sides of an issue. There are several other web sites on this subject but there is no way for me to deny or verify their claims.

    President Cossiga lost favor in my eyes when he imputed motivation.
    He may have a few facts from the Italian investigation but he does not know motives. I smell an axe to grind.

    From Wikepedia:

    The role of the CIA in sponsoring Gladio and the extent of its activities during the Cold War era, and its relationship to attacks perpetrated in Italy during the years of lead and other similar clandestine operations is the subject of ongoing debate and investigation. Italy, Switzerland and Belgium have had parliamentary inquiries into the matter.[2] The US state department has denied involvement in terrorism and stated that some of the claims have been influenced by what it presents as a Soviet forgery,

    American Free Press also publishes articles on 9/11 conspiracy theories. One of their ex-contract reporters, Christopher Bollyn, who has been a guest on David Duke radio[2], is sometimes cited for his reporting in the 9/11 Truth Movement. However, Bollyn has also been criticized as a holocaust denier by 9/11 researchers.[3][4] Yet the film Loose Change used material from American Free Press as a source and the film Oil, Smoke & Mirrors contains an interview with Bollyn. Others have criticized Bollyn for inserting claims devoid of actual references. In his alleged reports of 9/11 anomalies, he suggests that the Flight 93 crash site had no aircraft debris [5][6] contrary to numerous other reports with evidence of such debris[7]. In his article about the seismic events of the WTC towers collapses, Bollyn suggests that the seismic spikes preceded the collapses and are thus evidence for “basement bombs.”

    It is getting harder and harder to get reliable reference sources with so many conflicting and unsupported (suportable??) veiwpoints.

    Robert Clifton

  • Robert Clifton

    Hello Sincere Friend:
    It appears that you and I this time are miles apart.
    I found these at the Wikepedia. Now I don’t put too much stock in that vehicle but it does garner comments from both sides of an issue. There are several other web sites on this subject but there is no way for me to deny or verify their claims.

    President Cossiga lost favor in my eyes when he imputed motivation.
    He may have a few facts from the Italian investigation but he does not know motives. I smell an axe to grind.

    From Wikepedia:

    The role of the CIA in sponsoring Gladio and the extent of its activities during the Cold War era, and its relationship to attacks perpetrated in Italy during the years of lead and other similar clandestine operations is the subject of ongoing debate and investigation. Italy, Switzerland and Belgium have had parliamentary inquiries into the matter.[2] The US state department has denied involvement in terrorism and stated that some of the claims have been influenced by what it presents as a Soviet forgery,

    American Free Press also publishes articles on 9/11 conspiracy theories. One of their ex-contract reporters, Christopher Bollyn, who has been a guest on David Duke radio[2], is sometimes cited for his reporting in the 9/11 Truth Movement. However, Bollyn has also been criticized as a holocaust denier by 9/11 researchers.[3][4] Yet the film Loose Change used material from American Free Press as a source and the film Oil, Smoke & Mirrors contains an interview with Bollyn. Others have criticized Bollyn for inserting claims devoid of actual references. In his alleged reports of 9/11 anomalies, he suggests that the Flight 93 crash site had no aircraft debris [5][6] contrary to numerous other reports with evidence of such debris[7]. In his article about the seismic events of the WTC towers collapses, Bollyn suggests that the seismic spikes preceded the collapses and are thus evidence for “basement bombs.”

    It is getting harder and harder to get reliable reference sources with so many conflicting and unsupported (suportable??) veiwpoints.

    Robert Clifton

  • Robert Clifton

    Hello peyamb

    Speaking of facts, I didn’t see anything even vaguely resembling a fact in your post.
    Comments such as this:
    “You are either a plant to disrupt Baqui’s great site, or just so blinded by your fundamentalism, that you will never see.”
    are totally without merit.

    To laud ‘this great site’ and then to post that comment is hypocricy. Surely you have a better mentality than that???

    Back on the subject:
    Do you have a fact about the demographics of any particular community and its twenty fold growth or decline or stagnation?
    Atlanta Georgia is a growing community, and has developed considerably more than twenty fold since I was there in the 1970’s.
    Minneapolis, Minnesota is a growing community.
    Grants Pass, Oregon was an LSA at one time but there are no Baha’is there now.
    Richmond, Indiana was an LSA but has died.
    Does anyone know about Los Angeles? It was a thriving place before the flare up over censorship. Is it still?
    Albequerque NM is seeing a lot of growth in the Orthodox Community.
    Santa Fe NM has seen the Tarbiyat allmost completely disappear and they had a school as good as Maxwell.
    In my seven county area there are twelve UHJ Baha’is and two Orthodox Baha’is, plus my wife and I unafilliated Baha’is. Down by large numbers from the 70’s surge.
    So you are right on one point, it does depend upon from whence you look.
    What I want to know is an overall growth or decline – looking down at the whole earth from the moon. Are there more or less Baha’is today than when you were born?

    Keep posting my friend but you might want to recall that a great cite becomes greater with civility.

    Robert Clifton

  • Robert Clifton

    Hello peyamb

    Speaking of facts, I didn’t see anything even vaguely resembling a fact in your post.
    Comments such as this:
    “You are either a plant to disrupt Baqui’s great site, or just so blinded by your fundamentalism, that you will never see.”
    are totally without merit.

    To laud ‘this great site’ and then to post that comment is hypocricy. Surely you have a better mentality than that???

    Back on the subject:
    Do you have a fact about the demographics of any particular community and its twenty fold growth or decline or stagnation?
    Atlanta Georgia is a growing community, and has developed considerably more than twenty fold since I was there in the 1970’s.
    Minneapolis, Minnesota is a growing community.
    Grants Pass, Oregon was an LSA at one time but there are no Baha’is there now.
    Richmond, Indiana was an LSA but has died.
    Does anyone know about Los Angeles? It was a thriving place before the flare up over censorship. Is it still?
    Albequerque NM is seeing a lot of growth in the Orthodox Community.
    Santa Fe NM has seen the Tarbiyat allmost completely disappear and they had a school as good as Maxwell.
    In my seven county area there are twelve UHJ Baha’is and two Orthodox Baha’is, plus my wife and I unafilliated Baha’is. Down by large numbers from the 70’s surge.
    So you are right on one point, it does depend upon from whence you look.
    What I want to know is an overall growth or decline – looking down at the whole earth from the moon. Are there more or less Baha’is today than when you were born?

    Keep posting my friend but you might want to recall that a great cite becomes greater with civility.

    Robert Clifton

  • Sincere Friend

    My dear civil friend Robert,

    I think what you point out is correct, its does depend upon your perspective. I have met Bahais who were around when Abdul Baha was visiting the US. Are there more Bahais and LSAs now than then, well of course. Are there more now than in the turbulent 70s, in some places yes, but mostly it seems to follow the younger urban demographic of expansion in the cities and decline in the smaller towns. That is my observation.

    The nature of growth is surges and flows. One has to step back and take the largest picture and then see the smaller cycles from that perspective. Remember the 10 year crusade? When Bahais were sent to most of the countries of the world whereas previously there was just a concentration in Iran, Europe, Australia, the US and Japan? That formed a network which we still have to fill up completely. That is what I am talking about. Those gains were won with real sacrifice and that is the key that the Writings mention that the Divine assistance and confirmations come from sacrifice. That too sometimes takes time to be apparent, but one measure I think is significant for an individual is the degree to which those things that were sacrificed now matter to them…that is what is the evidence of detachment.

    The greatest growth in the Faith, and all religions really, has always come in places and at times when the society was under the greatest stress. The growth in Iran in the 1840s came a time when the appearance of the Mahdi was anticipated and when the massacres of the Babis occured. The 60s and the 70s in the US were another time of great growth because change was in the air. I think there was also a growth surge in Europe after WWII.

    We are at a time now where there is a strange calm like you have before a very violent storm. You can see it far away on the horizon with the lightning and the clouds but where you are sitting it is calm and you are comfortable in your warm home and your nice income if you live in America. The stage is set though for rapid and cataclysmic change in the world, with the environment and global warming, with the huge deficits and the mortgage crisis in the US, with the pressure for war being manufactured by the behind the scenes players.

  • Sincere Friend

    My dear civil friend Robert,

    I think what you point out is correct, its does depend upon your perspective. I have met Bahais who were around when Abdul Baha was visiting the US. Are there more Bahais and LSAs now than then, well of course. Are there more now than in the turbulent 70s, in some places yes, but mostly it seems to follow the younger urban demographic of expansion in the cities and decline in the smaller towns. That is my observation.

    The nature of growth is surges and flows. One has to step back and take the largest picture and then see the smaller cycles from that perspective. Remember the 10 year crusade? When Bahais were sent to most of the countries of the world whereas previously there was just a concentration in Iran, Europe, Australia, the US and Japan? That formed a network which we still have to fill up completely. That is what I am talking about. Those gains were won with real sacrifice and that is the key that the Writings mention that the Divine assistance and confirmations come from sacrifice. That too sometimes takes time to be apparent, but one measure I think is significant for an individual is the degree to which those things that were sacrificed now matter to them…that is what is the evidence of detachment.

    The greatest growth in the Faith, and all religions really, has always come in places and at times when the society was under the greatest stress. The growth in Iran in the 1840s came a time when the appearance of the Mahdi was anticipated and when the massacres of the Babis occured. The 60s and the 70s in the US were another time of great growth because change was in the air. I think there was also a growth surge in Europe after WWII.

    We are at a time now where there is a strange calm like you have before a very violent storm. You can see it far away on the horizon with the lightning and the clouds but where you are sitting it is calm and you are comfortable in your warm home and your nice income if you live in America. The stage is set though for rapid and cataclysmic change in the world, with the environment and global warming, with the huge deficits and the mortgage crisis in the US, with the pressure for war being manufactured by the behind the scenes players.

  • peyamb

    What do you believe?…

    I believe in a loving God that gave me the freedom to think critically for myself and not just tote the party line.
    And if SF can come here and insult the creator of this great blog by telling him that “perhaps the Faith is a scapegoat for his unhappiness”, then I can make the assumption that he is no more than a plant to tote the party line. But if he’s not, then here is another assumption: Judging from the long posts that he has so much time to write, probably not employed, sitting by his computer and has ample time to comment- unlike the rest of us. I know of a person in my community who acts the same way. I had to politely put him in his place when he quoted me Shoghi Effendi in order to get me to come to Feasts!

  • peyamb

    What do you believe?…

    I believe in a loving God that gave me the freedom to think critically for myself and not just tote the party line.
    And if SF can come here and insult the creator of this great blog by telling him that “perhaps the Faith is a scapegoat for his unhappiness”, then I can make the assumption that he is no more than a plant to tote the party line. But if he’s not, then here is another assumption: Judging from the long posts that he has so much time to write, probably not employed, sitting by his computer and has ample time to comment- unlike the rest of us. I know of a person in my community who acts the same way. I had to politely put him in his place when he quoted me Shoghi Effendi in order to get me to come to Feasts!

  • Sincere Friend

    Well perhaps Cossiga has an axe to grind but he is definitely not a flake and I have heard it from other equally reputable sources not just one, and the fact is also that three building came down on 9 11 not just the two we saw the most of on TV. No plane hit that other building and the other buildings didnt fall on it….so?

    Also you have to ask of the 9 11 event, Who gains from it? Well some very powerful people do, those that want to profit from war and want to advance an agenda of aggression against their enemies by using the powerful but sleeping Western powers.

    There is an apocolyptic ideology shared by all three of the major Abramic world religions, and that is that God would decide between the good and the wicked in a great final battle at Armagedon. The Jewish religionists believe they are the good guys and that the Moslems and maybe the Christians will be
    destroyed and they can then take over the world, a replay of Israels conflict with ancient Syria. The Chrisitans mostly side with the Jewish religionists against the Moslems. The Moslems believe that they are the good guys because their Messenger is more recent than the others and that they will win at Armagedon. The unfortunate thing for world is that people with these kind of strong beliefs are in control of governments and militaries that are at odds with each other. They believe that by making war they are forwarding the fulfillment of their own religions prophecies for this time. They are right but they dont see the larger picture that is unfolding.

    The way I see it this is Gods plan B. The plan A was for the world to have 100 years after the passing of Baha u llah to spread His Teachings and to possibly save ourselves consciously and rationally, hasn’t happened so – plan B is if the people of the world don’t digest this Revelation they will be presented with the consequence of that disbelief which is the fulfillment of their blind faith, one being pitted against the other as a consequence of their theological mal-disposition toward each other. Either way the Cause of God will be victorious on earth as is promised in all the scriptures for this time. Its happened this way in the past as you may recall from religious history when the people don’t listen they are left to live out the consequences of their actions which usually involves not taking Gods prescription for that age and they die as a people of the disease of their time.

    The ultimate result will be that these forces that have arisen will go against each other and exhaust themselves in the process. leaving the world to those who are able to comprehend and practice peace, love and unity.

    This has happened before where aggressive radical political forces have arisen and gone out and confronted other contrary forces and when it was all over and the aggressors were exhausted then the moderate rational people stepped in and rebuilt a better, saner, more prosperous world. The forces that were in contention were both annihilated. That was in the history of the 20th century in a paragraph.

    Well I know some of you wont like what you might characterize as an “Old Testament” viewpoint that does not agree with the neo-liberal humanistic sentiment that seems to be popular now, but it is a pattern that has repeated itself in history many times and seems to be setting itself up again.

    God Bless!

  • Sincere Friend

    Well perhaps Cossiga has an axe to grind but he is definitely not a flake and I have heard it from other equally reputable sources not just one, and the fact is also that three building came down on 9 11 not just the two we saw the most of on TV. No plane hit that other building and the other buildings didnt fall on it….so?

    Also you have to ask of the 9 11 event, Who gains from it? Well some very powerful people do, those that want to profit from war and want to advance an agenda of aggression against their enemies by using the powerful but sleeping Western powers.

    There is an apocolyptic ideology shared by all three of the major Abramic world religions, and that is that God would decide between the good and the wicked in a great final battle at Armagedon. The Jewish religionists believe they are the good guys and that the Moslems and maybe the Christians will be
    destroyed and they can then take over the world, a replay of Israels conflict with ancient Syria. The Chrisitans mostly side with the Jewish religionists against the Moslems. The Moslems believe that they are the good guys because their Messenger is more recent than the others and that they will win at Armagedon. The unfortunate thing for world is that people with these kind of strong beliefs are in control of governments and militaries that are at odds with each other. They believe that by making war they are forwarding the fulfillment of their own religions prophecies for this time. They are right but they dont see the larger picture that is unfolding.

    The way I see it this is Gods plan B. The plan A was for the world to have 100 years after the passing of Baha u llah to spread His Teachings and to possibly save ourselves consciously and rationally, hasn’t happened so – plan B is if the people of the world don’t digest this Revelation they will be presented with the consequence of that disbelief which is the fulfillment of their blind faith, one being pitted against the other as a consequence of their theological mal-disposition toward each other. Either way the Cause of God will be victorious on earth as is promised in all the scriptures for this time. Its happened this way in the past as you may recall from religious history when the people don’t listen they are left to live out the consequences of their actions which usually involves not taking Gods prescription for that age and they die as a people of the disease of their time.

    The ultimate result will be that these forces that have arisen will go against each other and exhaust themselves in the process. leaving the world to those who are able to comprehend and practice peace, love and unity.

    This has happened before where aggressive radical political forces have arisen and gone out and confronted other contrary forces and when it was all over and the aggressors were exhausted then the moderate rational people stepped in and rebuilt a better, saner, more prosperous world. The forces that were in contention were both annihilated. That was in the history of the 20th century in a paragraph.

    Well I know some of you wont like what you might characterize as an “Old Testament” viewpoint that does not agree with the neo-liberal humanistic sentiment that seems to be popular now, but it is a pattern that has repeated itself in history many times and seems to be setting itself up again.

    God Bless!

  • Sincere Friend

    I believe in a loving God too and I cherish the freedom to think freely. Thats why I dont use my real name on this blog so that those who may take exception to free thought dont come knocking on my door.

    Well the creator of the blog is a “she” as you probably know but may have forgotten to write. I made an observation based on reading this blog for quite a long time and deducing that her comments were a result of resentment as much as critical thinking, she is very intelligent, much more so than I am. I also know how she feels because I have been burned a few times too and I didnt like it either. So I suppose I was seeing some of myself in her but encouraging her to accept her feelings by recognizing where they come from and then forgiving those who hurt her and then realizing that the Faith that she loves is bigger than any person who may be part of it. Much bigger, which I think she does. I apologize to you and to her if you perceive that it was an insult, it certainly wasnt intended that way.

  • Sincere Friend

    I believe in a loving God too and I cherish the freedom to think freely. Thats why I dont use my real name on this blog so that those who may take exception to free thought dont come knocking on my door.

    Well the creator of the blog is a “she” as you probably know but may have forgotten to write. I made an observation based on reading this blog for quite a long time and deducing that her comments were a result of resentment as much as critical thinking, she is very intelligent, much more so than I am. I also know how she feels because I have been burned a few times too and I didnt like it either. So I suppose I was seeing some of myself in her but encouraging her to accept her feelings by recognizing where they come from and then forgiving those who hurt her and then realizing that the Faith that she loves is bigger than any person who may be part of it. Much bigger, which I think she does. I apologize to you and to her if you perceive that it was an insult, it certainly wasnt intended that way.

  • Andrew

    Does this blog have a Secure Wing? I think I just saw a cow fly by. It’s exciting!!

  • Andrew

    Does this blog have a Secure Wing? I think I just saw a cow fly by. It’s exciting!!

  • peyamb

    Well the creator of the blog is a ?she? as you probably know but may have forgotten to write. I made
    ————-
    No actually I didn’t know. Have never communicated with her. All I know is this blog. And please save me the apologies. I love how fundie Bahais make insults then turn around and apoligize. Then of course do it again. Is that the modus operandi for you guys? I’d rather have straight forward honesty about how you feel. I’m quite clear with my feelings. :o)

  • peyamb

    Well the creator of the blog is a ?she? as you probably know but may have forgotten to write. I made
    ————-
    No actually I didn’t know. Have never communicated with her. All I know is this blog. And please save me the apologies. I love how fundie Bahais make insults then turn around and apoligize. Then of course do it again. Is that the modus operandi for you guys? I’d rather have straight forward honesty about how you feel. I’m quite clear with my feelings. :o)

  • Robert Clifton

    Growth is cyclical for sure. That is graphicly demonstrated by tree rings – some huge some tiny, but the oak is sturdy none-the-less.
    There are all sorts of demons in the road to the future. There have always been. Wars, famines, you name it, each generation has had to face down a set of dragons. We all feel that by comparison none are as evil as the demons I face. Again – where are you standing?

    I have a postulation; perhaps even a theory concerning the growth of the Baha’i faith that goes about like this:

    I’ve heard that if we unite behind a wrongness, I mean really unite, then God will make the needed corrections.

    For a period of time, for the most part, with noted exceptions all the Baha’is were really united behind Abdul Baha and the resultant concept of a uhj headed by a living guardian. We threw our fortunes, our lives into the concept by building temples and sending Knights to various lands and individual teaching. We had growth.
    Shoghi left no will. I am wondering if that was not God correcting a wrongness? Doing away with the tops down management system? We splintered at that juncture and we universally went into decline with localized exceptions.
    I immersed myself (again) and ignoring everything EXCEPT the writings of Baha’u’llah, I found the architecture for a ground swell, grass roots, bottoms up system well described in the writings.
    With that information I can understand and use the sage wisdom of Abdul Baha without diverting to a clergy run faith.

    I see on this board and many others a good many Baha’is who are confused by this great oppression. (What greater oppression than not knowing where to look while seeking the truth).
    Is this the new cycle? Will it produce growth – entry by troops?
    Will this bring unity to all Baha’is?

    Ah well, a hundred thousand years, a thousand – goodness seven sounds like a lot at my age. My doctors and family all figure I have another twelve minutes. I’ll settle for seven years.

    Peyamb: You’re doing good. As you say, you SF and all of us have free will, uncontested, and not subject to acceptance by anyone else.
    I saw this some time back — ass u me.

    Andrew: a purple one??

    Robert Clifton

  • Robert Clifton

    Growth is cyclical for sure. That is graphicly demonstrated by tree rings – some huge some tiny, but the oak is sturdy none-the-less.
    There are all sorts of demons in the road to the future. There have always been. Wars, famines, you name it, each generation has had to face down a set of dragons. We all feel that by comparison none are as evil as the demons I face. Again – where are you standing?

    I have a postulation; perhaps even a theory concerning the growth of the Baha’i faith that goes about like this:

    I’ve heard that if we unite behind a wrongness, I mean really unite, then God will make the needed corrections.

    For a period of time, for the most part, with noted exceptions all the Baha’is were really united behind Abdul Baha and the resultant concept of a uhj headed by a living guardian. We threw our fortunes, our lives into the concept by building temples and sending Knights to various lands and individual teaching. We had growth.
    Shoghi left no will. I am wondering if that was not God correcting a wrongness? Doing away with the tops down management system? We splintered at that juncture and we universally went into decline with localized exceptions.
    I immersed myself (again) and ignoring everything EXCEPT the writings of Baha’u’llah, I found the architecture for a ground swell, grass roots, bottoms up system well described in the writings.
    With that information I can understand and use the sage wisdom of Abdul Baha without diverting to a clergy run faith.

    I see on this board and many others a good many Baha’is who are confused by this great oppression. (What greater oppression than not knowing where to look while seeking the truth).
    Is this the new cycle? Will it produce growth – entry by troops?
    Will this bring unity to all Baha’is?

    Ah well, a hundred thousand years, a thousand – goodness seven sounds like a lot at my age. My doctors and family all figure I have another twelve minutes. I’ll settle for seven years.

    Peyamb: You’re doing good. As you say, you SF and all of us have free will, uncontested, and not subject to acceptance by anyone else.
    I saw this some time back — ass u me.

    Andrew: a purple one??

    Robert Clifton

  • Sincere Friend

    Well yes forgive me, it was not as lovingly kind as it might have been expressed. How would you have preferred that I would have pointed out the fact to you?

  • Sincere Friend

    Well yes forgive me, it was not as lovingly kind as it might have been expressed. How would you have preferred that I would have pointed out the fact to you?

  • Robert Clifton

    Baqui,
    A girl??
    Well, I’ll be damned!
    Sometimes it takes me a while to realize there is a puzzle to be solved.
    Robert

  • Robert Clifton

    Baqui,
    A girl??
    Well, I’ll be damned!
    Sometimes it takes me a while to realize there is a puzzle to be solved.
    Robert

  • http://www.bahaitheway.blogspot.com Priscilla Gilman

    Sincere Friend is very certain that Baquia is a “she.” I’m not so sure. This is an important question and it has been weighing on my mind for a long time. I have posted a poll on my blog to resolve the question democratically.

  • http://www.bahaitheway.blogspot.com Priscilla Gilman

    Sincere Friend is very certain that Baquia is a “she.” I’m not so sure. This is an important question and it has been weighing on my mind for a long time. I have posted a poll on my blog to resolve the question democratically.

  • World Citizen

    I am currently a student at Maxwell International School, and have been for the past two and a half years. I live, love, and breathe with young adults from fourty some odd different countries and ethnic groups, of various beliefs and religious backgrounds. I am very sad to say that I have seen more disunity, contempt, and schism in the comments on this blog post than I have among my classmates in all the time I’ve attended Maxwell, even in light of the unfortunate news of last November. I am thouroughly ashamed, especially because most of the people here are Bahai: isn’t the driving purpose of our faith the unification of mankind? How ever can we expect to acomplish this ideal if we are so disunified ourselves?

    I have seen firsthand the entire Maxwell family – students, alumni, family members, the Bahai community, etc. – step up to change the fate of our school with blazing prayer books and titanium-alloy coated determination. Because of our efforts, there is a very real possiblity that there will be an operational Maxwell International School for my little brother to attend next year. If the small Maxwell community can work miracles when we’re as united behind the school as we are, why can’t the unification of the world’s Bahais pull the faith up? Now, I ask you all: why do you insist on bemoaning the state of things instead of working towards changing them? This is what my school does: trains young men and women to be self-actualized adults with the desire to be of service in the betterment of the world. If that sounds tasty to you, we’re trying to increase our enrollment :)

    Oncemore, I don’t appreciate all this negative energy. If you want to argue about the American economy, mortgage crises, scapegoats, 9-11, and the decline in Bahai enrollment (all of which have very little to do with Maxwell to begin with), I ask that you not relate it to the efforts that my school is making to keep itself open.

    I feel sorry for subjecting you to my righteous indignation, but as this is a blog under the name of “Bahai Rants”, I’m hoping I can get away with it. Please keep us in your thoughts and prayers, as you will be in mine.

    WC

  • World Citizen

    I am currently a student at Maxwell International School, and have been for the past two and a half years. I live, love, and breathe with young adults from fourty some odd different countries and ethnic groups, of various beliefs and religious backgrounds. I am very sad to say that I have seen more disunity, contempt, and schism in the comments on this blog post than I have among my classmates in all the time I’ve attended Maxwell, even in light of the unfortunate news of last November. I am thouroughly ashamed, especially because most of the people here are Bahai: isn’t the driving purpose of our faith the unification of mankind? How ever can we expect to acomplish this ideal if we are so disunified ourselves?

    I have seen firsthand the entire Maxwell family – students, alumni, family members, the Bahai community, etc. – step up to change the fate of our school with blazing prayer books and titanium-alloy coated determination. Because of our efforts, there is a very real possiblity that there will be an operational Maxwell International School for my little brother to attend next year. If the small Maxwell community can work miracles when we’re as united behind the school as we are, why can’t the unification of the world’s Bahais pull the faith up? Now, I ask you all: why do you insist on bemoaning the state of things instead of working towards changing them? This is what my school does: trains young men and women to be self-actualized adults with the desire to be of service in the betterment of the world. If that sounds tasty to you, we’re trying to increase our enrollment :)

    Oncemore, I don’t appreciate all this negative energy. If you want to argue about the American economy, mortgage crises, scapegoats, 9-11, and the decline in Bahai enrollment (all of which have very little to do with Maxwell to begin with), I ask that you not relate it to the efforts that my school is making to keep itself open.

    I feel sorry for subjecting you to my righteous indignation, but as this is a blog under the name of “Bahai Rants”, I’m hoping I can get away with it. Please keep us in your thoughts and prayers, as you will be in mine.

    WC

  • Sincere Friend

    Some of us would like to help too. Please tell us where we can send money or students. And tell us too when will it reopen and under what circumstances and under what management?

  • Sincere Friend

    Some of us would like to help too. Please tell us where we can send money or students. And tell us too when will it reopen and under what circumstances and under what management?

  • World Citizen

    I know not when it will reopen, but if things go according to the pieces of plans the students have been privy to, it will be open for the 08-09 school year. If you have possible students for the 08-09 school year, it would be best to enroll them now, becuse the greater interest that is shown in the school, the greater the chance that the Canadian NSA will give the green light to continue the school.

    I believe that the group of parents and concerned community members that is spear-heading the fight for the school is working on the management plan as I type. Untill now, the school has been run like a charity, and the plan is to have it run more like a business. That’s basically the extent of my knowledge on their proceedings. Their email is:

    maxwelldevelopment@yahoo.com

    and the official school website is:

    http://www.maxwell.bc.ca

    Money is much appreciated, but what we need most is students! If you can only send one of the two, please send the latter! Thank you very much for your concern and help.

  • World Citizen

    I know not when it will reopen, but if things go according to the pieces of plans the students have been privy to, it will be open for the 08-09 school year. If you have possible students for the 08-09 school year, it would be best to enroll them now, becuse the greater interest that is shown in the school, the greater the chance that the Canadian NSA will give the green light to continue the school.

    I believe that the group of parents and concerned community members that is spear-heading the fight for the school is working on the management plan as I type. Untill now, the school has been run like a charity, and the plan is to have it run more like a business. That’s basically the extent of my knowledge on their proceedings. Their email is:

    maxwelldevelopment@yahoo.com

    and the official school website is:

    http://www.maxwell.bc.ca

    Money is much appreciated, but what we need most is students! If you can only send one of the two, please send the latter! Thank you very much for your concern and help.

  • Peyamb

    WC, I feel sorry having been subjected to your self righteousness as well. There is disunity in the Faith because Bahais who don’t tote the party line are told to shut up for the sake of ‘unity’. And made to feel like they don’t really belong- sort of like what you are doing. Sorry, it doesn’t work on me!

  • Peyamb

    WC, I feel sorry having been subjected to your self righteousness as well. There is disunity in the Faith because Bahais who don’t tote the party line are told to shut up for the sake of ‘unity’. And made to feel like they don’t really belong- sort of like what you are doing. Sorry, it doesn’t work on me!

  • World Citizen

    Peyamb, I apologize for any hurt feelings, but what I now is this: no lasting solution to any problem, be it disunity, war, poverty, corruption, or any other issue has ever arisen from anything except unity. I also know that if everyone in a group is unified behind whatever it is they do, weather or not what they are doing is right will be made apparent quickly, for example:

    Five canoers are on a trip. They become lost, and three canoers believe that they have to go south to reach their destination. The other two canoers believe that they must travel west to reach their destination: if three canoers paddle south, and two paddle west, the canoe won’t go anywhere anytime soon. However, if all five of them paddle in the same direction, it will be made clear weather or ot that direction is right or wrong.

    What I have gleaned from the writings is that (this is my personal interpretation and I in no way expect you to adopt it as gospel) it is better to be unified than to be right. I don’t want you to shut up for the sake of unity, I simply ask that we all paddle in the same direction until the truth becomes apparent.

  • World Citizen

    Peyamb, I apologize for any hurt feelings, but what I now is this: no lasting solution to any problem, be it disunity, war, poverty, corruption, or any other issue has ever arisen from anything except unity. I also know that if everyone in a group is unified behind whatever it is they do, weather or not what they are doing is right will be made apparent quickly, for example:

    Five canoers are on a trip. They become lost, and three canoers believe that they have to go south to reach their destination. The other two canoers believe that they must travel west to reach their destination: if three canoers paddle south, and two paddle west, the canoe won’t go anywhere anytime soon. However, if all five of them paddle in the same direction, it will be made clear weather or ot that direction is right or wrong.

    What I have gleaned from the writings is that (this is my personal interpretation and I in no way expect you to adopt it as gospel) it is better to be unified than to be right. I don’t want you to shut up for the sake of unity, I simply ask that we all paddle in the same direction until the truth becomes apparent.

  • Kevin C

    … and let me guess… the direction you want everyone to paddle is the one of your choosing, right? Unity is fine and dandy, but the mistake that Baha’is make is to concentrate on it, rather than the prerequisites it requires.

    You do those and unity takes care of itself naturally. What are those prerequisites?

    Oh, I’m sure you’re smart enough to figure that out yourself. Wouldn’t want to get in the way of your individual investigation of truth :-)

  • Kevin C

    … and let me guess… the direction you want everyone to paddle is the one of your choosing, right? Unity is fine and dandy, but the mistake that Baha’is make is to concentrate on it, rather than the prerequisites it requires.

    You do those and unity takes care of itself naturally. What are those prerequisites?

    Oh, I’m sure you’re smart enough to figure that out yourself. Wouldn’t want to get in the way of your individual investigation of truth :-)

  • Peyamb

    well WC, the truth is already aparent. In the community I live in, they’ve been struggling to have an assembly for decades. I haven’t heard of an enrollment in years. In the larger metropolitan area, yes they have a very slight growth- but hell the city is growing like crazy, so they should at least see a couple of people per year becoming Bahais. So you can keep paddling to nowhere. I’ve decided there are more creative ways to serve humanity and show my love for God, than to sit in committe meetings or boring ruhi classes. In most religioius communities, people like me would be just as welcome (not all Catholics tote the party line 24/7; but they are still united), but unfortunatley among the Bahais it’s a different story. THUS, you get so many disgruntled ones expresing themselves online. Make sense?

  • Peyamb

    well WC, the truth is already aparent. In the community I live in, they’ve been struggling to have an assembly for decades. I haven’t heard of an enrollment in years. In the larger metropolitan area, yes they have a very slight growth- but hell the city is growing like crazy, so they should at least see a couple of people per year becoming Bahais. So you can keep paddling to nowhere. I’ve decided there are more creative ways to serve humanity and show my love for God, than to sit in committe meetings or boring ruhi classes. In most religioius communities, people like me would be just as welcome (not all Catholics tote the party line 24/7; but they are still united), but unfortunatley among the Bahais it’s a different story. THUS, you get so many disgruntled ones expresing themselves online. Make sense?

  • Sincere Friend

    What was commented about it being better to be unified than to be right, bears some further examination. As I understand it that if we are unified but not right in due time it will be apparent that we were not correct and then can turn to a better solution, all together, but sometimes the fight between two parties about how to do something spoils the whole picnic for everyone, and that I understand is why the teaching on being united. It doenst necessarily exclude being right or speaking your mind, but in my experience staying united, even when some or many think the path is incorrect, is better than the problems that arise when there is arguing and conflict.

  • Sincere Friend

    What was commented about it being better to be unified than to be right, bears some further examination. As I understand it that if we are unified but not right in due time it will be apparent that we were not correct and then can turn to a better solution, all together, but sometimes the fight between two parties about how to do something spoils the whole picnic for everyone, and that I understand is why the teaching on being united. It doenst necessarily exclude being right or speaking your mind, but in my experience staying united, even when some or many think the path is incorrect, is better than the problems that arise when there is arguing and conflict.

  • http://www.redletterbahai.com Robert Clifton

    Hello World Citizen
    My name is given above, my unified card number is 007358 and I am being actively shunned by the unified Baha’is in my city.
    I investigated Mason Remeys claim and in discussions of those claims with other enrolled in good standing Baha’is I was brought to face a continental counselor who recommended that I be expelled from the faith. No enrolled Baha’i today will engage in conversation with me face to face. That sort of blocks instructions on which way to paddle.
    All that said:
    I would personally like to enroll in the Maxwell school. I am a dedicated covenant breaker. When is the next semester?
    I will bring my own money.
    I would like to learn what others have to say about the concept you addressed. We were all united behind Abdul Baha but that has become a horrendously devisive issue. Is that a wrongness being corrected?
    Wouldn’t your canoe concept dictate that the UHJ, Joel, Jacques, Dave, John, you, me, sincere friend and everyone else with a vested interest sit down and discuss this?

    Robert Clifton

  • http://www.redletterbahai.com Robert Clifton

    Hello World Citizen
    My name is given above, my unified card number is 007358 and I am being actively shunned by the unified Baha’is in my city.
    I investigated Mason Remeys claim and in discussions of those claims with other enrolled in good standing Baha’is I was brought to face a continental counselor who recommended that I be expelled from the faith. No enrolled Baha’i today will engage in conversation with me face to face. That sort of blocks instructions on which way to paddle.
    All that said:
    I would personally like to enroll in the Maxwell school. I am a dedicated covenant breaker. When is the next semester?
    I will bring my own money.
    I would like to learn what others have to say about the concept you addressed. We were all united behind Abdul Baha but that has become a horrendously devisive issue. Is that a wrongness being corrected?
    Wouldn’t your canoe concept dictate that the UHJ, Joel, Jacques, Dave, John, you, me, sincere friend and everyone else with a vested interest sit down and discuss this?

    Robert Clifton

  • eim

    To get back to the original issue…..
    My daughter began attending Maxwell International School for grade 11 this Sept. She declared as a Baha’i this spring after much serious reflection and discussion with me and her mentors in the tiny pioneering Baha’i group here in the Inuit community of Arviat, Nunavut. Unlike Baha’i s in more populated centres, my daughter was very isolated here and did not have the support of larger groups and classes with other students her own age. She was also subject to some serious criticism of her spiritual choice. Most of her school mates were totally uninterested in spiritual matters or were condemning her from the perspective of fundamentalist Christianity. Although she has always been able to discuss and question all aspects of life with me at home, in the process of developing her own identity, she needs to be able to discuss and share her seeking with other people her own age.
    At Maxwell she has been able to be nurtured in her chosen faith and to pursue her spiritual quest in unity and harmony with other people from cultures and backgrounds very different from hers. Even after a few months, I see a maturity, confidence, and breadth of vision and experience that amaze me. I have no regrets at all about sending her to Maxwell, even if it is only for one year. I pray that Maxwell will be able to continue so that other young people may have this amazing opportunity to live in a warm, caring multi-cultural community and be nurtured in their spiritual development during the crucial teenage years.
    Nothing can replace the role of parents and family in the nurturing and education of their children, and I applaud the efforts of Baha’i s everywhere to support their children in growing spiritually. At some point, however, young people need to leave home to make their own ways in the wider world. For many this step occurs when they go to university or other post-secondary institutions, but some need to take this step sooner, for various reasons. As an only child, my daughter needs the experience of living and sharing with other people than her mother. This is something I cannot give her at home. At Maxwell, she can have this experience in a safe, supportive community that shares the values she has chosen and which I support whole-heartedly.
    I saw Maxwell for the first time this September and my impression was very positive. I saw a warm, comfortable but not luxurious facility in a beautiful setting. My daughter’s dormitory has a courtyard with lovely flowers and trees and a small fountain. The view of the lake and the mountains from her dorm room is stunning. The room itself is spacious and light-filled. In the staff and the facilities I saw a school where the spiritual development of the students is what’s important, not a school where appearances and possessions matter. Maxwell is not a “prep school” for the rich. It’s fees are much more affordable than most other boarding schools in Canada. I am a teacher and a single parent and it is not easy to find the money to provide this experience for my daughter, but it IS possible. Please consider giving your child or a deserving child you know this important experience! Yes, the needs of people in the developing world are urgent, but our children growing up in affluent, materialist, individualist North American society are in grave danger of malnutrition of the spirit if we leave them totally open to the prevailing culture and values and don’t give them as many opportunities as possible to experience the life of the spirit. Maxwell provides one significant way to do this.

  • eim

    To get back to the original issue…..
    My daughter began attending Maxwell International School for grade 11 this Sept. She declared as a Baha’i this spring after much serious reflection and discussion with me and her mentors in the tiny pioneering Baha’i group here in the Inuit community of Arviat, Nunavut. Unlike Baha’i s in more populated centres, my daughter was very isolated here and did not have the support of larger groups and classes with other students her own age. She was also subject to some serious criticism of her spiritual choice. Most of her school mates were totally uninterested in spiritual matters or were condemning her from the perspective of fundamentalist Christianity. Although she has always been able to discuss and question all aspects of life with me at home, in the process of developing her own identity, she needs to be able to discuss and share her seeking with other people her own age.
    At Maxwell she has been able to be nurtured in her chosen faith and to pursue her spiritual quest in unity and harmony with other people from cultures and backgrounds very different from hers. Even after a few months, I see a maturity, confidence, and breadth of vision and experience that amaze me. I have no regrets at all about sending her to Maxwell, even if it is only for one year. I pray that Maxwell will be able to continue so that other young people may have this amazing opportunity to live in a warm, caring multi-cultural community and be nurtured in their spiritual development during the crucial teenage years.
    Nothing can replace the role of parents and family in the nurturing and education of their children, and I applaud the efforts of Baha’i s everywhere to support their children in growing spiritually. At some point, however, young people need to leave home to make their own ways in the wider world. For many this step occurs when they go to university or other post-secondary institutions, but some need to take this step sooner, for various reasons. As an only child, my daughter needs the experience of living and sharing with other people than her mother. This is something I cannot give her at home. At Maxwell, she can have this experience in a safe, supportive community that shares the values she has chosen and which I support whole-heartedly.
    I saw Maxwell for the first time this September and my impression was very positive. I saw a warm, comfortable but not luxurious facility in a beautiful setting. My daughter’s dormitory has a courtyard with lovely flowers and trees and a small fountain. The view of the lake and the mountains from her dorm room is stunning. The room itself is spacious and light-filled. In the staff and the facilities I saw a school where the spiritual development of the students is what’s important, not a school where appearances and possessions matter. Maxwell is not a “prep school” for the rich. It’s fees are much more affordable than most other boarding schools in Canada. I am a teacher and a single parent and it is not easy to find the money to provide this experience for my daughter, but it IS possible. Please consider giving your child or a deserving child you know this important experience! Yes, the needs of people in the developing world are urgent, but our children growing up in affluent, materialist, individualist North American society are in grave danger of malnutrition of the spirit if we leave them totally open to the prevailing culture and values and don’t give them as many opportunities as possible to experience the life of the spirit. Maxwell provides one significant way to do this.

  • Frankie

    The disunity of Baha’is “who don’t tote the party line” are Baha’is who are no longer “firm in the Covenant” and/or are Covenant breakers. Abdu’l-Baha warned us in His Will & Testament about Covenant breakers and show we should deal with them:

    “And now, one of the greatest and most fundamental principles of the Cause of God is to shun and avoid entirely the Covenant- breakers, for they will utterly destroy the Cause of God, exterminate His Law and render of no account all efforts exerted in the past. O friends! It behoveth you to call to mind with tenderness the trials of His Holiness, the Exalted One and show your fidelity to the Ever-Blest Beauty. The utmost endeavor must be exerted lest all these woes, trials and afflictions, all this pure and sacred blood that hath been shed so profusely in the Path of God, may prove to be in vain.
    O ye beloved of the Lord! Strive with all your heart to shield the Cause of God from the onslaught of the insincere, for souls such as these cause the straight to become crooked and all benevolent efforts to produce contrary results.”

    (Compilations, Baha’i World Faith, p. 447)

  • Frankie

    The disunity of Baha’is “who don’t tote the party line” are Baha’is who are no longer “firm in the Covenant” and/or are Covenant breakers. Abdu’l-Baha warned us in His Will & Testament about Covenant breakers and show we should deal with them:

    “And now, one of the greatest and most fundamental principles of the Cause of God is to shun and avoid entirely the Covenant- breakers, for they will utterly destroy the Cause of God, exterminate His Law and render of no account all efforts exerted in the past. O friends! It behoveth you to call to mind with tenderness the trials of His Holiness, the Exalted One and show your fidelity to the Ever-Blest Beauty. The utmost endeavor must be exerted lest all these woes, trials and afflictions, all this pure and sacred blood that hath been shed so profusely in the Path of God, may prove to be in vain.
    O ye beloved of the Lord! Strive with all your heart to shield the Cause of God from the onslaught of the insincere, for souls such as these cause the straight to become crooked and all benevolent efforts to produce contrary results.”

    (Compilations, Baha’i World Faith, p. 447)

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  • WHIT3RAV3N

    Above mentioned, YES, it does have to do with economy, mortgages, & the decline in Bahai enrollment.

  • fubar

    Most Smokable Leaf!

    where (o where!) is the gender poll on baquia?

    (may you be blessed with many spontaneous eruptions of mirth, and may the muses forever sit in your lap.)

  • fubar

    re: huianui [1 year ago]

    landegg/maxwell are obviously sad evidence of the emptiness (disconnectedness from authentic humanity/lifeworld) that seems to be growing in bahai culture as the old cliches and utopian themes and endless attempts at bureaucratic reinvention grind on into oblivion.

  • fubar

    Most Smokable Leaf!

    where (o where!) is the gender poll on baquia?

    (may you be blessed with many spontaneous eruptions of mirth, and may the muses forever sit in your lap.)

  • fubar

    re: huianui [1 year ago]

    landegg/maxwell are obviously sad evidence of the emptiness (disconnectedness from authentic humanity/lifeworld) that seems to be growing in bahai culture as the old cliches and utopian themes and endless attempts at bureaucratic reinvention grind on into oblivion.

  • Wyo-cowboy

    Right-I have seen this too-Read “Tablets of Devine Plan” -the part about the indians of the artic regions (Greenland),and the events associated with this.. And the turning against Israel by the whole world,as BIG sighns of the times…Just is ,and was fortold..

  • Wyo-cowboy

    I wonder if Bill Gates would be interested in funding the school..

  • Desir0101

    Hi Frankie,
    Explain how people like you say ”Covenant breaker can destroy the Faith if it’s really come from the One True God and exterminate His Law.
    All true religions of the past have faced severe opposition and persecution too and this have not prevent Them from gaining victory.
    They have not even shun people because they need answers that you have no response.
    What do you call investigation of truth????
    Many questions will come out after you accepted the Bahai faith and then come with hidden realities.
    Because initially you will hear the wonderful principles and world unity and peace in a common family. Latter you have question which you have no right to set just to remain silent.
    Or you will be a covenant breaker.
    Bob.

  • Lawrence Phillips66

    Could this be evidence of the Baha’i and society at large connection.l 

  • Lawrence Phillips66

    That the Crisis that comes before Victory!

  • Craig Parke

    No.

  • Craig Parke

    Uh. No.

  • Fubar

    Of course it has nothing to do with the creepy doctrinaire atmosphere or the fundamentalist conformism of the people running the national assemblies that crushes the free spirits of the children attending. That has nothing to do with it, at all, right? (sarcasm intended)

  • Fubar

    Silly stuff. You might as well argue for “Creationism” vs. evolutionary theory.

    In the 19th/20th centuries, two variants of Romanticism (marxism vs. fascism) battled each other, and caused so much mutual damage to themselves and the old imperial powers, that american “democracy” was able to fill the vacuum (global markets) for a couple of generations.

    However, after the industrial revolution, the american institutions were really run by the “Man Behind the Curtain” – plutocrats and central banks. (Eventually Kissinger and his buddies created a new international order based on oil, defense industries, and the walmart-china connection. the internet put that system on steroids, resulting in “global economics”, which finally crashed according to plan, ending any meaningful form of american democracy.)

    The previous battle between liberty and imperialism settled into an unstable compromise (FDR’s New Deal).

    When the opposition to Plutocracy (such as organized labor) was discredited in the 60s due to the pathologies of postmodernism (people going to college and them working in offices instead of on farms or in factories),  it was just a matter of time before the old 19th century style cycle of bubbles and the vaporization of middle class wealth would resume.

    Ronald Reagan made the “insanity” of resuming such bubbles sound “patriotic”.  Liberalism died its last breath the day that Bill Clinton got in bed with rich people to get into power as President.

    What evolutionary theory did was to delegitimize the mythic-conformism of traditional religion (which posited “creation” stories that had the “hand of god” directing human development). Marx showed that it made far more sense to see that paradigm shifts in the techno-economic composition of society resulted in changes to culture and religion, not the other way around. Capitalism similarly discredited the need for a hostile (feudal) collective that required that individuals conform to religious myth. Capitalism promoted the achievement meme, which ironically, was the first actual practice of globalism (transcendence of national/tribal culture).  It was the hated “individualism” and “materialism” of the Achievers (and their scientific-rationalist supporters/allies) that was necessary for the overthrow of the old mythic/ethnocentric paradigms and replacement by a global-centric one.

    “god” had little or nothing to do with that in the sense of sending a “prophet”, unless you wish to claim that a “revelation” in the arabian desert 1,000 years previously had direct causation, or that a “dual revelation”  in Iran 200 years later somehow caused a “reverse time warp” that influenced the causes of democracy in the 1500s/1600s. ???

  • Fubar

    there were plenty of people giving warnings about problems in the culture and the economy for at least 25 years. they were marginalized by the establishment, and bahais paid no attention either. the “calm before the storm” was manufactured, as was the storm (as you state).

  • Fubar

    Due to evolution, human brain chemistry is wired to seek out the grand scheme in things. so all “religion” is potentially expansive if the culture is in a dynamic and creative mode. However, dysfunctional religion is the opposite, it is small and narrow minded, and makes the people that follow it smaller because they allow themselves to be exploited by leaders that have to sell lies and pretend that dynamism exists when it is actually absent.

    When a nonconforming voice emerges to complain about exploitation and lies by corrupt leaders (as supported by a pre-rational collective), it becomes necessary to coerce that voice by use of psychological violence (“bullying”).

    You could chose to NOT do the decent thing, and set aside your fundamentalist nonsense, and celebrate the sunshine and truth of this blog. Instead, you have a need to pervert light and make it dark. shame.

  • Fubar

    Doesn’t seem like it. BG is interested in doing things that actually help humanity. As such, he probably doesn’t pay much attention to religion.

  • Fubar

    4 years later – time to spill the beans.

    M. Scott Peck explained how a “community” can transcend “false unity” and attain “true unity”.

    First, be honest about a lack of trust and alienation.

    Try to walk in the other person’s shoes.

    Give permission for chaos and upset to happen.

    Contemplate the emptiness that detachment creates.

    Allow a sense of harmony to overcome the hurt that comes from honesty as a higher sense of common, shared purpose replaces conflict.

    http://fce-community.org/stages-of-cb/

    http://fce-community.org/the-cb-experience/

    CB = Community Building =A group of people, who, despite the
    diversity of their previous history, have been able to accept and
    transcend their differences, thus enabling them to communicate
    effectively and openly and to cooperate in working toward a recognizable
    goal or for the common good of the group

    This level of development of the
    group–the state of community–requires authentic opening and connecting
    of the heart. It flows, equally, from an awareness and understanding of
    the self and of relations with others, particularly with the other
    participants in the workshop.

  • Fubar

    more silly stuff. using that “logic” we would still all be sitting caves neanderthal style. or, still conforming to some corrupt mullahs in persia.

  • Fubar

    re: “That sort of blocks instructions on which way to paddle.”

    as a completely-ex-bahai, that was hilarious.

    Perhaps a better way to put it would be “up a creek without a paddle”.

    The canoe concept doesn’t work when you have covenant fascists sending people up creeks without paddles. :) lol.

  • Fubar

    need medicine for constipation?

  • A corroborator

    Hi, Robert –
    Since there has been no reply about what is happening in Ecuador, maybe I can tell you what I know. This thread is about closing Bahai schools. The school founded by Ralph D’s wife, started I think in their house, has also closed.  There were something like a thousand “paper Assemblies” around Cusco in Peru, and now there is one. There were some 300 “paper Assemblies” in Ecuador, and now there are a dozen. Yes, the Ruhi method is pushed. Social service? No! we must first spread the healing message!
    Village to village. There were traveling teachers, then there were year-of-service youth. There is still the Bahai Radio station and their staff.
    In every country I am familiar with, there was a big enrollment push, the statistics reflect those “thousands” of people who were listed, and the growth (as SF points out for the Mormons) is largely demographic – Bahai children and the odd spouse.
    A corroborator.

  • Fubar

    This should not surprise anyone that understands the psychopathy and dysfunction that is prevalent in bahai administration. Even if a mass conversion project somehow gets started in spite of the “false unity”, disillusionment and apathy that is present in most bahai communities, it will be overtaken by the demands not of the human beings and their best interests involved at the local level, but by the demands of the dysfunctional bahai bureaucracy.

    What gets promoted by bahai administration is that which is self-serving. Success is falsely appropriated. All blame is placed on the “servants” who are “spiritually” at fault, never on the leadership.

    In other words, the haifan bahai system is modeled almost perfectly on am autocratic and dysfunctional persian feudal society.

    what as waste.

    bahai scripture clearly commands bahai administrators to hold themselves to high standards. instead they are liars and flim-flam artists.