David, this blog is about the Baha’i faith, it discusses relevant material. That there should be a question to the relevancy of such a blog is laughable. It is listed as the top 60 some search results in google when you search for the general term “Bahai”. ok? Have we got that established?
There is no subjective argument or personal opinion to bring into this question. Unless ignorance is now an opinion.
So the fact that it is “not approved” by the self-appointed Majnun editors, who ever they may be, is quite clearly due to the editors not sharing the opinions of the author of this blog.
In the end, as Baquia stated, it doesn’t matter. Everyone and anyone in the history of humanity has fallen flat on their face when they’ve tried to limit knowledge.
It is a bit ironic that a Baha’i – or someone claiming to be a Baha’i – and trying to do “good” within that definition would do something so bone headed.
That, I think is what Baquia was trying to point out.

TJ,

You make several excellent points here. But, unfortunately, always remember that on the present planet we are living on ignorance IS often an opinion. In fact, ignorance IS often an entire life long sustained point of view for some people. Cognitive dissonance is, in fact, a major growth industry in the present world as is witnessed every day by every one who is awake and thinking.

I am astonished every day of my life at the full spectacle of this phenomenon. My continuous inner mantra from sunrise to sunset on my life journey is “Say what?” and “WTF are you talking about?” I found the Ruhi Books just amazing and at a whole new level of Cosmic dysfunction.

So the concept of top down “pre-approved” “independent investigation of truth” is to be expected on this planet although the concept is a bit startling I must admit when you encounter it as came up on Baquia’s post.

“Stupid is as stupid does”.

-Forest Gump

This is where “pre-approved” “independent investigation of truth” always ends up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bJSwKZ8PmM

David,

Name one “irrelevant” website that comes up when Googling Bahai through the normal Google.

“Your comments are merely emotional reactions without any substance. They aren’t even real arguments.”

(Cleaning the wounds from that verbal bite. I suppose those are the rules of “combat.”)

Actually, I wasn’t feeling hyper emotional while writing anything thus far. I WAS using “political” to mean something negative, but I don’t just use words with a dictionary definition to write. I also use words that have a “popular” definition. It might not be a scholar’s style of writing. But I am not a scholar, so there’s that.

Also, It is unclear to me how I am using “conversation-stifling emotional doctrines” and that I should take it elsewhere, as if I don’t want to be a part of this discussion? Just because I don’t speak in the conventional tones that you or anyone else does, does not mean that I am trying to stifle any conservation. If introducing a disliked or unpopular idea into a discussion is considered “stifling”, then that is a no different action than what the “institutions” take upon the religious liberals.

I see everyone else is going on with the conversation. Nothing has been disrupted. And I never called anyone “insincere.” By saying “Yes, you’re right” I was referring to one part of your writing. That did not go through perfectly because it wasn’t a verbal conversation. I was not calling anyone insincere.

But in any case, I am going to bed. I saw your latest video YouTube video, btw. I thought it was very stimulating.

Matt,

Why “hyper emotional”? I didn’t say you were hyper- anything. I only said your words lacked any real substance; that they were merely sophistical, aimed at evoking disdain and apathy of the current dialogue.

And in case you are wondering how you are stifling conversation and accusing others of being insincere, allow me to quote you:

What I see is a lot of mind-games being played by both “sides.”

Each “group” thinks they can pick and choose the Writings of the Faith they like, and throw them at the “others” and say “This is what the Faith REALLY teaches. You’re a bunch of stupid morons!” Mud-slinging. Politics. All against the Teachings of the Faith.

You explicitly say that we are playing “mind games,” which means we are bent on manipulating one another into submission to our particular perspective instead of actually seeking the truth. Couple this with the fact that we all would deny such a claim (that is, if anyone else cared about your ideas besides me), and what you have is an accusation of insincerity.

Lastly, I want you to notice that I write these words as someone who stands outside the target of your criticism, since I (in fact) accept that Bahá’ís really ought to accept all of the teachings, or else stop calling themselves Bahá’ís. So in a sense, I agree with you. But I don’t agree with you assesment that anyone is being insincere or playing mind games. This is because, as I said, to make such a judgement of intent is both beyond me, and is itself as political and subversive as the supposed tactics of those you are accusing.

the Majnun site is obviously fascist bahai cr*p

(as previously observed by somebody selse, if they have a stunning new way of using search technology, google has lots of money to pay them for their ideas. I know someone that can directly connect them to google employee #14 to collect their $.)

and !Yes!, bahais and exbahais take sides and have food fights. ALL THE TIME.

foodfights look silly to people that don’t like (or care about) food fights. if they then say they think food fights are silly, then the foodfighters get “offended”. then the anti-foodfighters get offended that the foodfighters don’t understand how being an anti-foodfighter is better than foodfighting.

someone else will get offended that they are offending each other.

urgh.

in terms of “universal archetypes”:

liberal=nurturing mommy (peace/love)
conservative=strict daddy (order/structure)

guess what?

brain scans show that different areas of the human brain light up for each archetype.

both are needed.

the real problem that neither side in the liberal-conservative foodfights addresses is postmodern narcicissism/nihilism (boomeritis, “mean green meme”).

I agree TOTALLY with Mavaddat about getting out. most of the warm/fuzzy cool progressive stuff in bahai theology will be overtaken by the thought policing mentality that is found elsewhere in bahai theology.

gawd bless people that still believe in warm/fuzzy stuff, but they will lose the fight with the fascists. when being bahai is no longer fun or “meaningful”, they might realize how cr*ppy bahai theology really is. or they might go on ignoring the silliness, and drift into nothingness and go shopping.

Integral philosophy pioneer Jean Gebser talked about “paradigm regression”. (google “wiki gebser”)

postmodernists will be the worst fascists because they regress to tribal conformism and brutality in the name of compassion, tolerance and “diversity”. (talisman was a precursor)

as society regresses through postmodernism (boomeritis), it will increasingly “infect” the bahai community, and the paradigm regression will always lead back to fascism, not forward to warm/fuzzy/peace/love.

one integral philosopher, Don Beck, recently estimated that 1/2 of the human population of planet earth will be exterminated from lack of order that will result from postmodernists (liberals that revert to tribal fascism) increasingly coming to “power”.

e.g., the anti-global-warming “green fascists” are already telling poor people to stay poor, hungry and sick (no factories/cars/medicine/democracy/education) so the green fascists can enjoy their wealthy consumer economy without a bad climate.

Bye!
Eric P.
Sacramento

"Pre-approved" says it all. What an oxymoron when coupled with "individual investigation of truth." Can you imagine doing science with pre-screened data to select for the results you want? It's called "fraud."

"This is a brilliant tool for your research or scholarship projects."

Only if you don't give a damn or are ignorant about quality research and scholarship in the first place.

No doubt the site is an asset to most Baha'is, who have already stopped thinking for themselves anyway. Why waste time and energy thinking when there are plenty of institutions and learned administrators to tell you what to think.

Perhaps it can serve as a helpful warning site for potential converts who can still think for themselves and recognize Orwellian double-speak before it's too late.

Phagocyte wrote: a helpful warning site for potential converts who can still think for themselves and recognize Orwellian double-speak before it's too late.

Too late for what, Phogocyte? Anyone can freely leave the Baha'i faith. If you read this blog, you will find that it is easier to leave than to stay in.

It is wise to provide seekers with whatever is a priority at a given time, just as a supermarket will expose more conspicuously the season's products. The seeker is to perform his own research, but this doesn’t mean that the knower should blurt out everything he knows into people’s faces, all at the same time. The aim of sharing information is to assist seekers and not overwhelm them. It is obvious that all Baha'is do not meet the high standard set by Baha'u'llah, but do you expose your flowers or your waste bins to your guests? Here is how Baha’u’llah advises us to share knowledge:

“Not everything that a man knoweth can be disclosed, nor can everything that he can disclose be regarded as timely, nor can every timely utterance be considered as suited to the capacity of those who hear it.” (Gleanings LXXXIX)

"The Lord of celestial wisdom saith: A harsh word is even as a sword thrust; a gentle word as milk. The latter leadeth the children of men unto knowledge and conferreth upon them true distinction."(TU p 4)

"Say: O people! These words are being uttered in due measure, that the newly born may thrive and the tender shoot flourish. Milk should be given in suitable proportion, that the children of the world may attain to the station of maturity and abide in the court of oneness." (Tabernacle of Unity p 5)

"The suckling child must be nourished with milk. If it be given meat it will assuredly perish, and this would be naught but sheer injustice and unwisdom. Blessed are they that understand."(Tabernacle of Unity, p 13)

"…if the Sun of Truth were suddenly to reveal, at the earliest stages of its manifestation, the full measure of the potencies which the providence of the Almighty hath bestowed upon it, the earth of human understanding would waste away and be consumed; for men’s hearts would neither sustain the intensity of its revelation, nor be able to mirror forth the radiance of its light. Dismayed and overpowered, they would cease to exist."(Gleanings XXXVIII)

"Should the Word be allowed to release suddenly all the energies latent within it, no man could sustain the weight of so mighty a Revelation. Nay, all that is in heaven and on earth would flee in consternation before it." (Gleanings XXXIII)

Farhan,

It's what, 165 years into the New World Age now? The potentials of human consciousness have greatly expanded on all levels of human endeavor. The Baha'is should have been on the forefront of everything. They weren't. Other communities of thought and exploration pursuing the independent investigation of truth have now far outstripped the flat footed and completely restrained and fettered group think oriented worldwide Baha'i Community in accomplishment. One thinking person carrying out spiritually empowered individual initiative is worth 1,000 group think automaton drones in actually accomplishing something useful in the world.

No apparatchik hacks in the current Administrative Order of the Baha'i Faith could ever do my software engineering job every day because I am fiercely held personally accountable for by job performance. I have to be brought to account each day. I am sure that is true of every person who posts here in their profession. There is no where to hide in the real world. You have to do your job effectively or you are eventually out on the street looking for something else to do.

But the cradle to the grave lifetime incumbent "professional educator" theorist class that currently runs the Baha'i Faith is NEVER held accountable for anything by anyone. Ever. The worldwide Baha'i electorate is a shocking embarrassment of passive group think planetary cowards.

As I have said here before, if I had been a lifetime incumbent member of the UHJ or the US NSA for the last 40 years of my life, I would take a loaded gun, put it to my head, and pull the trigger. The record is just that pitiful. How can ANY of these people look at themselves in a mirror each morning when they get up? They have taken the Baha'i Faith to mind bending disaster and catastrophe. Their lame incestuous cliquish leadership has completely destroyed the bridge community in the Faith worldwide. The cameras of history are running at 24 frames a second in Dolby stereo sound. The sorry, hapless, completely ineffective record is there for all to see in human history. Bottom up grass roots consultation is no longer permitted by the top down ruling apparatchik class in the Baha'i Faith. No new ideas, new initiatives, and new energies are permitted. Everyone must now pimp for the MLM Plan and recruit more automatons to go door to door and also pimp for the LML Plan. Put "Anna's Presentation" on mp3 auto replay. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. If you actually read Baha'u'llah's Writings and discuss them you will be marked for surveillance as reeking of self and ego corrupted by "Western ideas". You will be marked for extra work in the Year Zero camps. The dumbed down Ruhi Books are the new McFaith. The burgher, fries, and diet coke Baha'i Faith is the Holy Writ. True, unfettered, "independent investigation of truth" will never be tolerated in such a system now. People that actually read non-Baha'i books and discuss them will be marginalized as the enemies of God in the new orthodox Orwellian group think. Peter Khan has clearly warned everyone in his speeches that everyone must mistrust all fellow Baha'is lest they be led astray from properly authorized orthodox thinking. And, remember, there are now actual study circles on his speeches so that everyone will get with the new doctrines of the Faith.

http://bahai-library.com/talks/khan.nz.html
http://bahai-library.com/talks/mental.tests.html

We recently had a lovely wedding, and the owner of the locale was so impressed by the fun that Bahá'ís and friends of Bahá'ís had without liquor (and the beauty of the readings, perhaps some diversity of the guests…) that he looked us up on Internet. There are some sites that would not be included on Majnún – should I be worried that he will undoubtedly be beguiled by the strayed sheep and never reach the one true fold? Or can I trust in the principle that 'Abdu'l-Bahá says is the number one ("although I have mentioned it in fourth place, it is really the foremost"): the independent investigation of truth?

Amado wrote : Or can I trust in the principle that 'Abdu'l-Bahá says is the number one ("although I have mentioned it in fourth place, it is really the foremost"): the independent investigation of truth?

Amadeo, I see a difference between the duties of the seeker, and the duties of a provider. The provider, without censoring the seeker, is to attract his attention to what he himself considers as essential. If some people wish to attract attention to the waste bins of the Faith, it is OK for them. I wish to attract people to the beauties of the Faith. Some go to Paris or NY and come back with stories of museums, restaurants and art galleries; others go to the same cities and come back with stories of slums and brothels. Each person is revealing his true self.

When a patient consults I first give him an idea of what science can do for him, before explaining to him the possible pitfalls he will be facing. Before I operate, I have to obtain what we call an “enlightened consent” (informed consent in the US). I have to make sure he has understood, but I don’t start with a booklet at the hospital entrance giving all the dangers of surgery before people even come to a diagnosis. Giving the priority to the good news, recounting the positive side of reality first, does not mean we should indefinitely hide and not warn against the pitfalls. Hence at each stage of the discovery of the Faith the provider will adapt his information to the seekers needs, and as we know, many temporary administrative measures such as control over Baha’i literature, and I would include Internet materials here, will disappear. As Shoghi Effendi writes:

« …the administration of the Cause is to be conceived as an instrument and not a substitute for the Faith of Baha'u'llah, that it should be regarded as a channel through which His promised blessings may flow, that it should guard against such rigidity as would clog and fetter the liberating forces released by His Revelation. … that the financial support accorded to a very few workers in the teaching and administrative fields is of a temporary nature; that the present restrictions imposed on the publication of Baha'i literature will be definitely abolished; »(World Order Baha'u'llah (p10)

Craig wrote: It's what, 165 years into the New World Age now? The potentials of human consciousness have greatly expanded on all levels of human endeavor. The Baha'is should have been on the forefront of everything.

Craig, compared to the situation of Christianity in the year 165 AD, the situation of the Baha’i Faith is brilliant.
And why should the Baha’is be in the forefront of everything? Why see our position with humanity as one of domination and competition, and not one of selfless service, acting as pure channels that convey God's message to all? I remember at one time the Iranian pioneers were in the forefront in one country. The UHJ advised them to be as the breeze moving the flowers of a garden but at the same time remaining invisible. This is the new standard: the outstanding servant is one who has become a source of infinite progress for humanity, not the one who has used humanity as a footstool to his own fame and renown.

Farhan,

You always seem to imply the Baha'i Faith and it's entrenched lifetime incumbent leadership machine is "completely selfless". I am sure everyone likes to personally think they are as their own Simon pure platitude self image. But on a subconscious level any straightforward analysis of the entrenched professional leadership of the Baha'i Faith will show that it is absolutely ruthless. Even completely hysterical and utterly radical!

The Baha'i Faith is riddled with a quest for fame and renown. Read the personal breathless "theory-of-everything" lecture speeches of the people running the Faith. Everything is a fierce lecture upon the Baha'i rank and file of the world by completely egotistical theorists obsessed with themselves and their personal theories as lifetime incumbents who are not held accountable to anyone or anything in Heaven or Earth. These people to a man have shameful feet of clay. The sorry record speaks for itself.

So where do you get this "selfless" meme about the Faith that you seem to try to make an example about in your posts here over and over? I just don't understand where you are getting this? Quite to the contrary, the current top down version of the Baha'i Faith is one of the most desperately ego driven organizations on Earth. It is a classic "my way or the high way" leadership. Many long time Baha'is have left and will continue to leave in this current environment until there is free and open consultation at every level of the Baha'i Faith and not the fiat dictates of an election gamed moribund personal satrap professional theorist clergy. There will never be true selflessness in the Baha'i Faith until there are fiercely enforce term limits in place across the board at every level worldwide.

Fame and renown in their own megalomania personal fantasies of obsessed organizational service immortality is driving everything. EVERYTHING!

But in reality it is all endless disgrace in world history and means nothing at all.

Farhan,

You are dreaming! The restrictions imposed on the publication of Baha'i literature will NEVER be abolished. NEVER! It is here to stay forever as the last stop example of the permanent mindset of another "Chief Priests, Scribes, and Pharisees" Abrahamaic religion from the authoritarian cultures of the Middle East.

The Administration of the cause IS a total completely synthetic substitute for the Faith of Baha'u'llah. SE's warning was not heeded. Ever. It is brain OCD chemistry and it can never be overcome on this planet. Mark my words. Restrictions of any kind will NEVER be lifted in the Baha'i Faith by the completely entrenched institutionalized brain chemistry "Administrative Order" for the next 500,000 years! These lifetime incumbent royalty are the Voice of God on Earth and they answer to no one in Heaven and Earth including Almighty God at any time! Why would ANYONE ever give THAT gig up? No individual will EVER be voted out of office in the Baha'i Faith for the next 500,000 years by the completely passive chloroformed sheep electorate! just smoke another Ruhi book and turn their soul off. No one will ever be held accountable for anything so who is going to countenance or enforce SE's warning in this system of complete organizational Orwellian irresponsibility? Who?

Craig wrote: It's what, 165 years into the New World Age now? The potentials of human consciousness have greatly expanded on all levels of human endeavor. The Baha'is should have been on the forefront of everything.

Craig, compared to the situation of Christianity in the year 165 AD, the situation of the Baha’i Faith is brilliant.
And why should the Baha’is be in the forefront of everything? Why see our position with humanity as one of domination and competition, and not one of selfless service, acting as pure channels that convey God's message to all? I remember at one time the Iranian pioneers were in the forefront in one country. The UHJ advised them to be as the breeze moving the flowers of a garden but at the same time remaining invisible. This is the new standard: the outstanding servant is one who has become a source of infinite progress for humanity, not the one who has used humanity as a footstool to his own fame and renown.

Craig wrote : The Baha'i Faith is riddled with a quest for fame and renown

Craig, the present world is indeed still dominated by power issues. The Baha’is are to some extent contaminated by this. The « great reversal » promised in all the books of the past and announced by Tahirih at Badasht will in time abase the arrogant and raise the down-trodden ; I see the institute process as part of this, accelerating the move towards a generalised empowerment : from individual tutorship for a few privileged we are going to public schools, from chauffeurs and taxis for the rare aristocrat, we are moving to trains.

Dear Farhan – Thanks for the interesting analogy. Like any model, let's try it out, even in the science of teaching:
I can imagine myself saying: "I hope like my city. Be careful if you go anywhere near X sector, where they will want to snatch your camera!"
However, I can't imagine myself giving my tourist friend a map that does not include X sector, or saying "We must never refer to X sector because you may be swept away into vice and become a camera snatcher!"
Just as sexist language (in Bahá'í materials, too, of course) gives us a chance to discuss the importance of 51% of the human race, I think the existence of people trying to destroy the Faith to bolster their own ego (or whatever) may usefully be discussed. If Covenant-breaker sites are treated as the forbidden fruit, THEN maybe someone might independently investigate it, swallow too much bile, and be repulsed from the flowers lying among the garbage of this world. I do give seekers a list of sites I like, such as Ocean, but I think a blindered search engine does give the wrong impression.

Craig wrote: You are dreaming!

Dear Craig, forget your nightmares and come dream with me, beacuse believe it or not, with God's help, we can make dreams come true!

Amado wrote : THEN maybe someone might independently investigate it, swallow too much bile, and be repulsed from the flowers lying among the garbage of this world

Amado, you are describing a typical youth attitude, at an age where we are specially attracted to whatever is forbidden. One of the May 1968 slogans was « it is forbidden to forbid ». We are speaking here of responsible adults, to whom a complete picture is offered through internet. I didn’t discover Baha’i Rants because I was warned against it, but by Googling for Ruhi materials! The UHJ offers no special guidance against reading questions and indeed encourages Baha’is to seek answers. This doesn’t mean that we are to overwhelm people for questions that have not arisen in people’s minds.

Back to my professional analogy, when a person seeks my advice, and before he gives consent for the treatment I am suggesting, I give him just that, mentioning possible alternatives and evaluating other techniques, without overwhelming him with exceptional outcomes or techniques. We have plenty of anti-science associations doing a wonderful job of terrifying the patients for us. There is a variance between the French and US requirements: we have to make sure the patient has understood before giving his consent; in the US they overwhelm patients with information and make him responsible to sort it out.

Back to your analogy, when a person is looking for art galleries, I don’t wipe out part of the map, but I recommend a list of addresses and the way to get there, without including the address of slums, unless I wish to warn him areas to avoid.

I do agree that at some point, a seeker should, one day or another, as Shoghi Effendi clearly recommends, be initiated to the implications of the Covenant he is entering into with God when he enrolls, so as not to waste time moving in and out of the community if he is not yet prepared for the implications and frustrations implied in community life. One of the purposes of what has become known as "Anna’s presentation" is to have a check-list to make sure that the fundamental teachings have been grasped enrolling, but this doesn’t mean that we should only restrict information to those fundamentals.

…Except Majnun did sift through the dust and it was seen as a praiseworthy thing.