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	<title>Comments on: Reports Show Communities Ignoring Ruhi</title>
	<link>http://bahairants.com/reports-show-communities-ignoring-ruhi-482.html</link>
	<description>A personal Baha'i blog.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Baquia</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/reports-show-communities-ignoring-ruhi-482.html#comment-53352</link>
		<dc:creator>Baquia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:32:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bahairants.com/reports-show-communities-ignoring-ruhi-482.html#comment-53352</guid>
		<description>[quote comment=""]Ideally, Ruhi is meant to be a starting point of discussion and search for truth. [/quote]

Ruhi can certainly be used that way but it is clear from reading the introductory text of the book, as Nur pointed out that it was not created by its authors to be used this way and they in fact discourage its use in this way.

Personally I believe that Ruhi will be discarded in due time. The sooner, the better because there are many intelligent people like yourself who have been not only turned off Ruhi but also by extension the Faith. I personally know of many who have reacted in a variety of negative ways to Ruhi: from total exit to simply restricting their community participation so they do not feel the peer pressure of participating in Ruhi.

The Baha'i Faith is certainly and infinitely greater than Ruhi - which is no more than a course cobbled together for rural illeterate folk in South America. It only gained international prominence within the Baha'i community because the authors gained important offices within the administration.

As was also mentioned, the House of Justice has made it clear on several occasions, as have individual members speaking on behalf of themselves, that Ruhi is NOT obligatory nor a requirement to be a Baha'i.

The problem with not participating in Ruhi and engaging in other activities, or as Anon suggests, starting a community event is that individual initiatives such as these are not supported by the community. I have myself attempted such activities and I have also seen friends attempt similar undertakings.

Because the pervasive cultural norm within the Baha'i community right now is that "Ruhi is it", most feel that to support or engage in anything other than Ruhi is not right. And that doing so would be "letting down the Faith".

Which means that those who dislike Ruhi are caught between a screeching parrot and an anvil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="http://bahairants.com/reports-show-communities-ignoring-ruhi-482.html#comment-"><p>
Ideally, Ruhi is meant to be a starting point of discussion and search for truth. </p>
</blockquote>
<p>Ruhi can certainly be used that way but it is clear from reading the introductory text of the book, as Nur pointed out that it was not created by its authors to be used this way and they in fact discourage its use in this way.</p>
<p>Personally I believe that Ruhi will be discarded in due time. The sooner, the better because there are many intelligent people like yourself who have been not only turned off Ruhi but also by extension the Faith. I personally know of many who have reacted in a variety of negative ways to Ruhi: from total exit to simply restricting their community participation so they do not feel the peer pressure of participating in Ruhi.</p>
<p>The Baha&#8217;i Faith is certainly and infinitely greater than Ruhi - which is no more than a course cobbled together for rural illeterate folk in South America. It only gained international prominence within the Baha&#8217;i community because the authors gained important offices within the administration.</p>
<p>As was also mentioned, the House of Justice has made it clear on several occasions, as have individual members speaking on behalf of themselves, that Ruhi is NOT obligatory nor a requirement to be a Baha&#8217;i.</p>
<p>The problem with not participating in Ruhi and engaging in other activities, or as Anon suggests, starting a community event is that individual initiatives such as these are not supported by the community. I have myself attempted such activities and I have also seen friends attempt similar undertakings.</p>
<p>Because the pervasive cultural norm within the Baha&#8217;i community right now is that &#8220;Ruhi is it&#8221;, most feel that to support or engage in anything other than Ruhi is not right. And that doing so would be &#8220;letting down the Faith&#8221;.</p>
<p>Which means that those who dislike Ruhi are caught between a screeching parrot and an anvil.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonnymouz</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/reports-show-communities-ignoring-ruhi-482.html#comment-53318</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonnymouz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:12:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bahairants.com/reports-show-communities-ignoring-ruhi-482.html#comment-53318</guid>
		<description>[quote comment=""]It all had to be the "Pure Word" and learning by rote.  Such a shame :([/quote]

I think it has a lot to do with the tutor and how understanding and deepened they are. If someone who is just trying to go through the books to put notches on their belt then the experience may be a little awkward. 

Ideally, Ruhi is meant to be a starting point of discussion and search for truth. The discussions are really nice when the tutor uses the Writings to help guide the flow of insights. Let's face it, some of our views are picked up by experiences and other circumstances and its always refreshing to learn what the writings say about it. Do adopt the position of the Faith hands down? No. My theory is have faith in the text, and work it backwards till you come to why it is you have come to the conclusions or ideas that you have and compare them with others...

Its early in the process and I imagine that the structure and format will change.

Nur, there are lots of other ways to take part. You don't have to do Ruhi. Why not a fun prayer night with world music and appetizers? These core activities have been miss-interpreted as something imposed or rote. I don't think so at all...They can be used to come up with great customized and unique experiences. Use your imagination!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="http://bahairants.com/reports-show-communities-ignoring-ruhi-482.html#comment-"><p>
It all had to be the &#8220;Pure Word&#8221; and learning by rote.  Such a shame <img src='http://bahairants.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
</blockquote>
<p>I think it has a lot to do with the tutor and how understanding and deepened they are. If someone who is just trying to go through the books to put notches on their belt then the experience may be a little awkward. </p>
<p>Ideally, Ruhi is meant to be a starting point of discussion and search for truth. The discussions are really nice when the tutor uses the Writings to help guide the flow of insights. Let&#8217;s face it, some of our views are picked up by experiences and other circumstances and its always refreshing to learn what the writings say about it. Do adopt the position of the Faith hands down? No. My theory is have faith in the text, and work it backwards till you come to why it is you have come to the conclusions or ideas that you have and compare them with others&#8230;</p>
<p>Its early in the process and I imagine that the structure and format will change.</p>
<p>Nur, there are lots of other ways to take part. You don&#8217;t have to do Ruhi. Why not a fun prayer night with world music and appetizers? These core activities have been miss-interpreted as something imposed or rote. I don&#8217;t think so at all&#8230;They can be used to come up with great customized and unique experiences. Use your imagination!</p>
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		<title>By: Grover</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/reports-show-communities-ignoring-ruhi-482.html#comment-53312</link>
		<dc:creator>Grover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bahairants.com/reports-show-communities-ignoring-ruhi-482.html#comment-53312</guid>
		<description>Hey Nur, ever done a Christian truth study?  It uses exactly the same methods as Ruhi: gives a quote, usually someone's interpretation of the bible and selected bible quotes, you have to ask questions and answer using the quotes.  Before long you're singing their tune like a captain's parrot.  Brainwashing and indoctrination are appropriate terms for Ruhi.  Thats what put me off.  Also, as you said, they restricted discussion which made it pretty much a primary school basic english comprehension lesson.  It all had to be the "Pure Word" and learning by rote.  Such a shame :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Nur, ever done a Christian truth study?  It uses exactly the same methods as Ruhi: gives a quote, usually someone&#8217;s interpretation of the bible and selected bible quotes, you have to ask questions and answer using the quotes.  Before long you&#8217;re singing their tune like a captain&#8217;s parrot.  Brainwashing and indoctrination are appropriate terms for Ruhi.  Thats what put me off.  Also, as you said, they restricted discussion which made it pretty much a primary school basic english comprehension lesson.  It all had to be the &#8220;Pure Word&#8221; and learning by rote.  Such a shame <img src='http://bahairants.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Nur</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/reports-show-communities-ignoring-ruhi-482.html#comment-53309</link>
		<dc:creator>Nur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:12:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bahairants.com/reports-show-communities-ignoring-ruhi-482.html#comment-53309</guid>
		<description>You know something, I resigned from the Baha'i Faith in part, because of Ruhi; not because of its absence. It was Ruhi that first gave me the jolt of paranoia, and there was always something about it that felt like 'brainwashing' (that's overstating it, but maybe 'indoctrination' is a better word to describe it). I also felt that it built false social solidarity, like a communist type of program. The feeling of being "a part of something larger than yourself" would only last so long as everyone was on board for the Ruhi. To me, that shows evidence of the fragility of the program itself. Any life-changing system should influence people regardless if they're in the 'club' or not, and regardless if they skip a month off to do other things, or participate every week.

I must admit that I liked Ruhi in the beginning, as a reference point for impromptu conversations with friends. Maybe some of the things we said were not official Baha'i doctrines, but we built a synergy amongst ourselves, and it has lasted even to this day, even though we don't see each other often and some of us live in different states, etc. But with all of the people that I took Ruhi 'classes' with, and 'graduated', I don't feel that synergy with them, or that feeling that we might come up with a really good idea if we sat and talked for a while, or that situation where you can pick up just where you left off with an old friend no matter how long it has been since you have seen them. I feel that those are real social bonds, and those grew out of honest conversations and being there for each other, without necessarily having a Ruhi book to mark down that we fulfilled our 'plan' of the month.

It took about six months before I really started disliking Ruhi. I thought at first it was because of the moderators and that my personality clashed with theirs. But then they read the introduction to Ruhi book #1 that said the point of Ruhi is not to have long-winded discussions, and incessantly discuss your personal interpretation of the Baha'i writings, which is what I and some other people were doing in those classes. We weren't doing it to hog the time or to try to act like we 'knew something'. We were just on fire with spirituality at the time, and we were coming up with new ideas constantly. It was a very interesting time for all of us.

I've considered coming back to the Faith a number of times, because I feel that the religion does have deep spiritual truths, and some of the writings of Baha'u'llah eloquently shine out like a glorious sun. But there are other elements that seem sinister to me, and seem rather authoritarian in nature. Maybe I am not seeing it 'context', I don't know. But right now, I can't come back to a religion with an organization like the Universal House of Justice as its Head, with all due respect to the members who serve on that institution. I have heard that they are great people from friends who have been on pilgrimage and met them personally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know something, I resigned from the Baha&#8217;i Faith in part, because of Ruhi; not because of its absence. It was Ruhi that first gave me the jolt of paranoia, and there was always something about it that felt like &#8216;brainwashing&#8217; (that&#8217;s overstating it, but maybe &#8216;indoctrination&#8217; is a better word to describe it). I also felt that it built false social solidarity, like a communist type of program. The feeling of being &#8220;a part of something larger than yourself&#8221; would only last so long as everyone was on board for the Ruhi. To me, that shows evidence of the fragility of the program itself. Any life-changing system should influence people regardless if they&#8217;re in the &#8216;club&#8217; or not, and regardless if they skip a month off to do other things, or participate every week.</p>
<p>I must admit that I liked Ruhi in the beginning, as a reference point for impromptu conversations with friends. Maybe some of the things we said were not official Baha&#8217;i doctrines, but we built a synergy amongst ourselves, and it has lasted even to this day, even though we don&#8217;t see each other often and some of us live in different states, etc. But with all of the people that I took Ruhi &#8216;classes&#8217; with, and &#8216;graduated&#8217;, I don&#8217;t feel that synergy with them, or that feeling that we might come up with a really good idea if we sat and talked for a while, or that situation where you can pick up just where you left off with an old friend no matter how long it has been since you have seen them. I feel that those are real social bonds, and those grew out of honest conversations and being there for each other, without necessarily having a Ruhi book to mark down that we fulfilled our &#8216;plan&#8217; of the month.</p>
<p>It took about six months before I really started disliking Ruhi. I thought at first it was because of the moderators and that my personality clashed with theirs. But then they read the introduction to Ruhi book #1 that said the point of Ruhi is not to have long-winded discussions, and incessantly discuss your personal interpretation of the Baha&#8217;i writings, which is what I and some other people were doing in those classes. We weren&#8217;t doing it to hog the time or to try to act like we &#8216;knew something&#8217;. We were just on fire with spirituality at the time, and we were coming up with new ideas constantly. It was a very interesting time for all of us.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve considered coming back to the Faith a number of times, because I feel that the religion does have deep spiritual truths, and some of the writings of Baha&#8217;u'llah eloquently shine out like a glorious sun. But there are other elements that seem sinister to me, and seem rather authoritarian in nature. Maybe I am not seeing it &#8216;context&#8217;, I don&#8217;t know. But right now, I can&#8217;t come back to a religion with an organization like the Universal House of Justice as its Head, with all due respect to the members who serve on that institution. I have heard that they are great people from friends who have been on pilgrimage and met them personally.</p>
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		<title>By: Farhan YAZDANI</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/reports-show-communities-ignoring-ruhi-482.html#comment-52205</link>
		<dc:creator>Farhan YAZDANI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 21:50:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bahairants.com/reports-show-communities-ignoring-ruhi-482.html#comment-52205</guid>
		<description>Badhras wrote:

In the meantime, I still believe with some conviction that if I lack the ambition to help others on their spiritual path, then it does speak poorly of me. 

Badhras,

There is this quote of Abdu'l-Baha, very dear to me, where He explains that it is not our level of achievement, but the choice of the right path that counts: 

He is a true Baha'i who strives by day and by night to progress and advance along the path of human endeavour, whose cherished desire is so to live and act as to enrich and illumine the world; whose source of inspiration is the Essence of Divine perfection; whose aim in life is so to conduct himself so as to be the cause of infinite progress. Only when he attains unto such perfect gifts can it be said of him that he is a Baha'i. (Abdu’l-Baha, Baha'i Revelation, p 285)

The moment we turn our eyes from our material requirements and open them to our spiritual investment which is no other than love of God which in turn equates with the love of His creation and creatures, a love which is manifest in service, at that moment we are "born again" and we start to advance into the kingdom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Badhras wrote:</p>
<p>In the meantime, I still believe with some conviction that if I lack the ambition to help others on their spiritual path, then it does speak poorly of me. </p>
<p>Badhras,</p>
<p>There is this quote of Abdu&#8217;l-Baha, very dear to me, where He explains that it is not our level of achievement, but the choice of the right path that counts: </p>
<p>He is a true Baha&#8217;i who strives by day and by night to progress and advance along the path of human endeavour, whose cherished desire is so to live and act as to enrich and illumine the world; whose source of inspiration is the Essence of Divine perfection; whose aim in life is so to conduct himself so as to be the cause of infinite progress. Only when he attains unto such perfect gifts can it be said of him that he is a Baha&#8217;i. (Abdu’l-Baha, Baha&#8217;i Revelation, p 285)</p>
<p>The moment we turn our eyes from our material requirements and open them to our spiritual investment which is no other than love of God which in turn equates with the love of His creation and creatures, a love which is manifest in service, at that moment we are &#8220;born again&#8221; and we start to advance into the kingdom.</p>
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		<title>By: Badhras</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/reports-show-communities-ignoring-ruhi-482.html#comment-52198</link>
		<dc:creator>Badhras</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 21:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bahairants.com/reports-show-communities-ignoring-ruhi-482.html#comment-52198</guid>
		<description>Farhan:

Thank you for the suggestion to read the speech and for pointing out the need for the Faith to have all kinds of skills. I was careful to include the "IF" in my original because what I think I should do and what God thinks I should do may differ. I will defer to the judgement I receive during prayer, whenever that judgement is delivered.

In the meantime, I still believe with some conviction that if I lack the ambition to help others on their spiritual path, then it does speak poorly of me. I have a successful enough track record of having persuaded to pursue vice and sin, with full knowledge of where it could lead. I hope those same skills might be used towards opposite goals, in service to God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Farhan:</p>
<p>Thank you for the suggestion to read the speech and for pointing out the need for the Faith to have all kinds of skills. I was careful to include the &#8220;IF&#8221; in my original because what I think I should do and what God thinks I should do may differ. I will defer to the judgement I receive during prayer, whenever that judgement is delivered.</p>
<p>In the meantime, I still believe with some conviction that if I lack the ambition to help others on their spiritual path, then it does speak poorly of me. I have a successful enough track record of having persuaded to pursue vice and sin, with full knowledge of where it could lead. I hope those same skills might be used towards opposite goals, in service to God.</p>
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		<title>By: Farhan YAZDANI</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/reports-show-communities-ignoring-ruhi-482.html#comment-52180</link>
		<dc:creator>Farhan YAZDANI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 19:45:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bahairants.com/reports-show-communities-ignoring-ruhi-482.html#comment-52180</guid>
		<description>Badhras wrote:
"I am still learning to see with but one of eyes. It is my hope that I may one day serve The Cause, and if that includes teaching and Ruhi, so be it... although, if I lack the ambition to help others then that fact speaks very poorly for me."

Badhras, the lack of ambition to help others is not a poor characteristic, but a different one. We all have certain talents and gifts we can use to contribute. 

This kind of service is at this time the priority since the UHJ feels that the masses of humanity at grass roots need it most; they are our short-term goals. We have so many other talents that can be of service: poets, artists, money makers, administrators, philosophers, public speakers...  all have talents for the just as essential long term goals. 

If you read Peter Khan's speech I posted on this you will be reassured that the Faith needs all these complementary talents and that Ruhi is by no means as some zealots have understood _THE_ only right way to serve that Faith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Badhras wrote:<br />
&#8220;I am still learning to see with but one of eyes. It is my hope that I may one day serve The Cause, and if that includes teaching and Ruhi, so be it&#8230; although, if I lack the ambition to help others then that fact speaks very poorly for me.&#8221;</p>
<p>Badhras, the lack of ambition to help others is not a poor characteristic, but a different one. We all have certain talents and gifts we can use to contribute. </p>
<p>This kind of service is at this time the priority since the UHJ feels that the masses of humanity at grass roots need it most; they are our short-term goals. We have so many other talents that can be of service: poets, artists, money makers, administrators, philosophers, public speakers&#8230;  all have talents for the just as essential long term goals. </p>
<p>If you read Peter Khan&#8217;s speech I posted on this you will be reassured that the Faith needs all these complementary talents and that Ruhi is by no means as some zealots have understood _THE_ only right way to serve that Faith.</p>
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		<title>By: Badhras</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/reports-show-communities-ignoring-ruhi-482.html#comment-52171</link>
		<dc:creator>Badhras</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 18:58:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bahairants.com/reports-show-communities-ignoring-ruhi-482.html#comment-52171</guid>
		<description>I am still learning to see with but one of eyes. It is my hope that I may one day serve The Cause, and if that includes teaching and Ruhi, so be it... although, if I lack the ambition to help others then that fact speaks very poorly for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am still learning to see with but one of eyes. It is my hope that I may one day serve The Cause, and if that includes teaching and Ruhi, so be it&#8230; although, if I lack the ambition to help others then that fact speaks very poorly for me.</p>
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		<title>By: Farhan YAZDANI</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/reports-show-communities-ignoring-ruhi-482.html#comment-52167</link>
		<dc:creator>Farhan YAZDANI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 18:41:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bahairants.com/reports-show-communities-ignoring-ruhi-482.html#comment-52167</guid>
		<description>Badhras wrote:
"Perhaps you can enlighten me (and perhaps others) as to the proper place of Ruhi. Can you with good conscience say it is not dogmatic and rote instruction? If it is not, then how is it not? And if it is dogmatic and rote, does it have a proper place? What responsibilities does one have to balance dogma with self discovery, diversity of opinion with deference?"

Badhras, i have had problems with people promoting Ruhi, and i waded my way through every message i could find from the BWC on the subject and I realised that some well-meaning and misguided zealots had misinterpreted the messages.

I have sent the references that helped me overcome these questions and they are available on this blog. I have also posted several messages on the subject on this blog.

In short, Ruhi is designed as a teacher-training programme and as such has to be very simple, systematised and precise so that an inexperienced person can learn teaching talents, and then teach those talents to others that can then convey them to still others. 

It is specially useful for highly intellectual people who are not accustomed to speaking with people with only elementary education, those which form the vast majority of humanity and who are concerned with the essential aspects of spiritual life and not with the very sophisticated concepts with which the overdeveloped minority of humans play around with. 

Ruhi is a springboard into further research and service; it is not intended as a substitute for deepening, Baha'i studies etc. If you are only concerned with your own spiritual path, and have no ambition to help others in their paths, Ruhi is not for you.

Those having been trained in the study circles are expected to use those talents in helping others through acts of service: children's classes, devotional meetings, commemorations, visiting those who need help etc: in fact what priests did before and which are needed in our community. Those who do the 7 books have not finished the 7 valleys, but can tutor others into the acts of service.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Badhras wrote:<br />
&#8220;Perhaps you can enlighten me (and perhaps others) as to the proper place of Ruhi. Can you with good conscience say it is not dogmatic and rote instruction? If it is not, then how is it not? And if it is dogmatic and rote, does it have a proper place? What responsibilities does one have to balance dogma with self discovery, diversity of opinion with deference?&#8221;</p>
<p>Badhras, i have had problems with people promoting Ruhi, and i waded my way through every message i could find from the BWC on the subject and I realised that some well-meaning and misguided zealots had misinterpreted the messages.</p>
<p>I have sent the references that helped me overcome these questions and they are available on this blog. I have also posted several messages on the subject on this blog.</p>
<p>In short, Ruhi is designed as a teacher-training programme and as such has to be very simple, systematised and precise so that an inexperienced person can learn teaching talents, and then teach those talents to others that can then convey them to still others. </p>
<p>It is specially useful for highly intellectual people who are not accustomed to speaking with people with only elementary education, those which form the vast majority of humanity and who are concerned with the essential aspects of spiritual life and not with the very sophisticated concepts with which the overdeveloped minority of humans play around with. </p>
<p>Ruhi is a springboard into further research and service; it is not intended as a substitute for deepening, Baha&#8217;i studies etc. If you are only concerned with your own spiritual path, and have no ambition to help others in their paths, Ruhi is not for you.</p>
<p>Those having been trained in the study circles are expected to use those talents in helping others through acts of service: children&#8217;s classes, devotional meetings, commemorations, visiting those who need help etc: in fact what priests did before and which are needed in our community. Those who do the 7 books have not finished the 7 valleys, but can tutor others into the acts of service.</p>
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