Ridvan Message 2012 from the Universal House of Justice

This year’s Ridvan message from the Universal House of Justice is notable for the announcement of several building projects for local and national Houses of Worship. The House of Justice notes that as the process of entry by troops is advanced enough to merit the construction of a national Mashriqu’l-Adhkar in the Democratic Republic of the Congo and in Papua New Guinea.

According to the House of Justice, the construction of the Temple in Chile and these new houses of worship mark the “Fifth Epoch of the Formative Age of the Faith”.

As well, several local Houses of Worship will be built in select localities. These should be familiar to Baha’is if they have been keeping up with the news of international teaching successes. A document from 2008, “Attaining the dynamics growth: Glimpses from ?ve continents” prepared by the International Teaching Center outlined several of these localities.

Among them: Bihar Sharif in India which is a predominantly rural area with 1200 villages each with 1000 average population. Matunda Soy and Tiriki West clusters in Kenya were noted for their achievements in the 2008 Regional conference as part of the international Five Year conferences. A personal Baha’i blog from Tiriki West cluster offers a bit more detail. Another locality with this distinction is Norte del Cauca in Colombia which is the site of the original Ruhi courses.

ruhi norte del cauca

Battambang in Cambodia was the site of a regional conference in 2009 with Baha’is participating from Laos, Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia. Finally Tanna in the Pacific island of Vanuatu will also be a site for a local house of worship.

The Ridvan message is below:

  • Craig Parke

    I know that according to AB’s reputed W&T the UHJ IS literally God for this World Age and what they say in every official and unofficial communication IS literally the Word of God for this World Age. But the whole Pol Pot Model of marching everyone into the jungle to build all of human society totally anew from some kind of Baha’i Civics Class Year Zero without regard to anything that has ever been achieved in ALL previous human cultural evolution up until now is somewhat depressing to me. It really makes me sad. Why did we evolve for the last 300,000 years to make it through the many rigors of the Ice Ages if absolutely nothing we have ever achieved counts at all in their plans and pronouncements?  It appears everything achieved in human social evolution up until now was just a Big Zero?

    With a perspective like this I feel like Woody Allen in “Sleeper” where his mother takes him to a psychiatrist because he is depressed that the Universe is expanding. When the psychiatrist asks why he is depressed because the Universe is expanding, the mother replies that he feels that if it is expanding then he believes it will eventually slow and contract and collapse and the world will implode upon itself and end. And so he is depressed. I know the UHJ is God and maybe God is merciful in mysterious ways. We have the march into the jungle and start over “Year Zero Plans” to recreate all of human society from scratch with everything riding solely only the guidance of the UHJ but we also have Prozac now for everyone too. So I guess there is a way to get through this for the next 1,000 years. I feel better now knowing there is now medical help available in our evolution too somehow. I guess taking prescribed drugs from a physician is still permitted in the Baha’i Faith? Right?

    I am all for building places “that humanity might find a place of meeting”.  That was what I once believed the Baha’i Faith was supposed to be all about. But it seems that the definition of “humanity” in the Baha’i Faith these days just keeps getting getting smaller and smaller. Year Zero Cult Thinking apparently does not allow for including the experience of the last 300,000 years in the long journey of Mankind to be anywhere in the mix. God is indeed a tough act to follow. But I guess we have to make the best of it with merciful medication available.

  • Forgive me for going off-topic:

    A lot of the commentary about the latest Ridvan message has concentrated on its building programme, rather than the picture it paints of organic unity within, and discord without. One of the problems of promoting organic unity is that organic unity has a close cousin called fascism. Sen put me onto this with something he wrote in the
    introduction to “Church and State”:

    “Society has been presented as something analogous to a body, and as an organic unity, since the Babylonian empire and perhaps earlier. This metaphor has supported the
    power of the powerful, the subordination of the weak, the extension of the ruler’s power to every aspect of life, and the secondary importance of individuals. The body of society has been pictured as having one heart (or in modem times, one brain), with all the parts existing only to serve the will of the centre. The organs and limbs should therefore work in harmony, under direction. This is a fascist model of society, by which I intend not mere namecalling, but a literal reference to that political philosophy that is embodied in the image of the _fasces_ bound together, and the motto ‘strength in unity.'” (p.7) Fascism has some good aspects and some bad ones, summarised here:

    “Fascists seek rejuvenation of their nation based on commitment to an organic national community where its individuals are united together as one people in national identity by suprapersonal connections of ancestry, culture, and blood through a totalitarian single-party state that seeks the mass mobilization of a nation through discipline,
    indoctrination, physical education, and eugenics. Fascism seeks to purify the nation of foreign influences that are deemed to be causing degeneration of the nation or of not fitting into the national culture.”
    ( Wikipedia – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism )

    I think there is always risk that organic unity becomes subverted into a form of fascism, and that the danger points are when any form of organic unity becomes top-down, tries to purify itself and sets itself up as a perfect system in relation to the rest of the world.

  • Craig Parke


    In my post I was obviously trying to joke a bit I guess in something I find so disturbing in these top down messages. And now your post has I believe further clarified it. It is a very peculiar brain chemistry and we saw this over and over in the great crimes of Totalitarian Communism and Fascism in the 20th Century. Could something so terrible have now happened in the unchallenged lifetime incumbent machinery of the once beautiful and gentle Baha’i Faith at this point? This is now the fear of more and more people who are leaving in droves. Those that are not enthusiastic enough about the present methods since 1996 have definitely been made to feel they are not wanted in both overt and covert ways. Everyone here knows the repeated draconian pronouncements of Peter Khan on the subject. Top down coercion is a subtle brain chemistry. As everyone knows who has studied history and personally known people who lived through the 1930’s and 1940’s in Germany as I have in my life, they will tell you how it all was so subtle at first and then the trap was spring to national organizational suicide on totally deranged brain chemistry manipulated by the new persuasive powers of film, radio, and public address systems as tools of the State. This whole approach seems to be getting more and more dangerous with no countervailing power of other thought. When I was at the Olympic Stadium in Berlin long ago I was very glad to see the bronze plaque “OWENS, U.S.A.” on the wall as a medalist in 1934 long after the Nazi’s had gone to total national suicide.


    Can anyone who thinks differently in the Baha’i Faith in 2012 be allowed to run in a race or do they have to go directkly to the box cars now? The Faith seems to be getting more and more insular and more and more isolated from the affairs of the real world. No thinking person will ever join or stay in a religion like this now. They seem to want that and are now concentrating in Third World rural villages where people have no other life than doing the books over and over.

    Is this the budding insular brain chemistry of some kind of serotonin and dopamine dysfunction “Fascism”? Who can stand up to this before there is some kind of Reichstag fire or has that already happened?

  • Kratos

    I always enjoy a good laugh by reading the messages of the “house of justice”. This one did not disappoint; it was ridiculous on many levels as always.  Fiercely orwellian as well. 

    I will re-study it over and over for more and more laughs because the depth of the insanity here is remarkable. 

    God forgive me if I’m wrong. Self doubt is always present in whoever is right. It’s people who are sure of their position who are wrong for sure. 

  • Kratos

    You’re spot-on Steve. On paper, the principle of the bahai faith is “unity in diversity”. But unity is much more stressed (and is just a gentle way to say “fascism”) and diversity not really welcome therefore it’s all very hypocritical. I am actually beginning to think the bahai faith supports that “whore of babylon” the bible talks about. Don’t tell “whore of babylon” to bahais though; they think swearing is the most horrible of sins. Everything must be gentle…”unity”, not “fascism”; respectable woman”, not “whore”. Never be sincere, never be honest and to the point, never call things with their real name: this is the first law of the world and of the bahai community as in 2012.

  • Craig Parke

     Insightful post, Kratos! The graphic “Archetypal” language of the Bible never goes out of style. Truly one stop shopping  in discussing Archetypal Spiritual States in the passage of World Ages. I think most people in the Baha’i Faith always believed that things would start to go off the rails at the End of the 1,000 Year Dispensation. That has been the pattern in every Abrahamic religion up until now. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. But the Baha’i Faith started to go off the rails for me somewhere around  1987 when the Old Guard somehow got control of the Faith back after the energy of the 60’s and the 70’s. The blowback was fierce. If you read the histories now all over the Internet it was subtle, but it was also take no prisoners. Now is seems various insular brain chemistries have now become manifest and it has all gone to group think implosion. With total top down Ruhiization the Faith is now at where Hitler invaded Russia and there  was no turning back for the fate of Germany. No one stopped him. No one is stopping the Year Zero Cult Think that has taken over. But such a top down approach cannot work in the New World Age. It is all bottom up now. All spiritual energy is bottom up. So the fortunes of the Faith will be greatly stunted and impaired now. But the World Age will go on. The rise of the Internet is incredible and it cannot be stopped. One of the most knowledgeable people of the last 40 years about the Baha’i Faith was Steve Jobs and he chose to carry out the spiritual mission of his Soul with great benefit to human evolution rather than join the Baha’i Faith. He truly changed the world by doing his daily work far more than any lifetime incumbents in the current Institutions of the Baha’i Faith. I wonder if anyone in Haifa knows the inner history of Steve Jobs and the Baha’i Faith? Anyway, the Promised Day has indeed come. 1 Billion people are now on Cable broadband Worldwide and counting. Every person on Earth who has a computer or can get to a library in their locality can potentially communicate thye most intimate thoughts and insights in every human language under UTF-8 now with every other person on Earth. I wonder if anyone in Haifa has ever heard of the potential of this technology yet? Does anyone know? 

  •  Hi Craig,

    It seems like we spotted the same thing, but came at it from different directions. I might have to go out and read some fascist literature to see whether it has the same triumphalism, calls to unity and groupthink that I’m spotting in the Ridvan messages. It’ll be depressing if it does.

  • Craig Parke

     Hi Steve,

    I think some research on this subject to try to get in the heart of the matter would truly be useful.  I found this very useful like on the intellectual history of what we now call “Fascism”. But it is clear that what people think today from the ashes is a quite different set of various definitions than what was perceived while it was a work in progress.

    I agree with the author in the below link that what most of the world is actually living under now ARE various forms of “Fascism”! The organizational system is very much alive and well! This very useful intellectual history account below gives much food for thought!

    I tend to see “Marxism”, “Communism”, “Fascism”, and all the amazing “Abrahamic Religions” as manifestations of the SAME psychological processes. It may all reduce further to the simple very fundamental biological processes of certain brain chemistries. I tend to go with explaining behaviors linked with “believe systems” as a spectrum of serotonin-dopamine imbalance disorders. In my dismay I have thought about this at great length all my life to try to find a theory that can explain the incredible dysfunction of the human race and especially the mind bending dysfunction of human organizations.


    It appears one of the greatest bounties of life on this little planet right now is the  ever expanding prospect for the limitless study of mind bending failure on all human affairs. To my mind, trying to understand mind bending failure is the ultimate Cosmic Tarot Card Deck. If you can understand the mysteries of total failure you can predict the future with great acumen. We are living in a time of great bounty for this as something new forms with the rise of the Internet. There is the prospect to discuss total human failure worldwide! The Baha’i Faith is now in the thick of it. Let us proceed in this discussion as people research the history, theory, and practice of Fascism.

    Meanwhile, I am currently in discussions with this aggregation regarding development of my current film script.


    Best to you and to everyone here!

  • Kratos

    Never heard of Steve Jobs and bahaism…but again Tolstoj did pretty much the same thing. A great minds CANNOT fit into any box of prefabricated beliefs of any size…he is always in search of truth knowing that he doesn’t and will never entirely grasp it. The bahai faith is NOT as big a box as it proclaims to be, it does not give complete and definite phylosophical solutions and most of all social solutions, as those must be conceived at the time the problem arises, true to the principle that the same mind that created the problem cannot solve that problem. A prophet can predict a problem, but predict the solution? many great minds predicted problems and maybe baha’u’llah did too but predicting the solution is something even he abstained from fully doing, giving this task to the house of justice. The house of justice is doing an AWFUL job in my opinion!!! And that within the bahai faith I am not entitled to think that, and am considered an apostate just for thinking that, makes the whole bahai system implode to me. I wish it weren’t true! the minor covenant…to me is a pure invention of mortal men…and if God is something that wants me to abandon what keeps me alive…my individual will, which I consider God himself, my true spirit…well then I am against God!!!

    It just can’t be, it is obviously an evil manipulation from ignorants, maybe they don’t even know what they do when they expect a man to give up his individual will in its entirety…confusing ego and spirit! Who can tell for sure what thoughts come from ego and what from spirit? How can we say that sacrificing one’s talents and intellect to the will of bahai institutions is a SPIRITUAL ACT? This is what they expect the believers to believe!!! What they want is called CONFORMISM…if God wants conformism and not individuality…then God is a super duper communist. I highly doubt!! Certainly not an “institution” is the will of God…the will of God can only reside within an individual and not come through GROUPTHINK, a common denominator of mistakes and individual flaws and ignorance (even though the good of the individuals might come out, it is very common that an individual mistake becomes common mistaken action through the belief in groupthink! The bible always, always professed that, and so all ancient wisdom from east and west. The while story of the bible is about the triumph of the individual/god over collective ignorance; did the Bible say that the people where RIGHT and doing the will of God when they killed Jesus? God and collective ignorance are NOT the same!

    back to Jobs…a mind close to God, a great intellect cannot accept limitations in his thinking of the kind the bahai community imposes.  These are securities for the layman. The “moral equivalent of small wheels on a bike” as Krishnamurti puts it.  A philosopher, a thinker should know but will not accept the bahai faith in terms of the current ortodox form held by the universal house of justice. Therefore I find it very unlikely that a great mind will sign that bahai declaration card really knowing what it means in terms of bahai administration. It’s incompatible with individual thinking rights. 

    Such rights are essential. Such individuality is, in the end, God itself…
    thus, boxes and groups that promote groupthink and abhor individuality are in my honest opinion anti-god. 

  • Craig Parke

     “Never heard of Steve Jobs and bahaism…”

    The account is covered in 3 pages in the famous 1984 book “Fire In The Valley”.


    It was a Baha’i, Bill Fernandez, who introduced Steve Jobs to Steve
    Wozniak. He is a wonderful person. One thing posterity should know is
    that he was completely driven by some spiritual compulsion that he MUST
    introduce them to each other NOW! Not next week or the week after that,
    but NOW THIS WEEK! The rest is history. For the first two years that
    the three of them were all working together in that garage on
    the original Apple I, they all discussed the Baha’i Faith at length
    every day. He told me his account of this when I met him in San
    Francisco back in 1986. I think his Mother was the original bookkeeper for Apple and was also a Baha’i. I am sure this is all completely unknown to the
    powers that be in the Baha’i Faith of today. The worldwide micro-computer
    revolution and the rise of the Internet is unimportant in the world of
    printed Ruhi books. But I think his account to me about the mystical
    spiritual experience of him being very clearly compelled to introduce
    them to each other is a very interesting footnote to history. There are a
    few quotes around the Internet from Steve Wozniak on this period too
    regarding the Baha’i Faith that also corroborate this account. I do not
    know if it is mentioned in the new biography of Steve Jobs as I have not
    read it yet. But I certainly plan on reading it later this year.

    This famous Steve Jobs quote most likely comes from this period in his thinking:

    “Your time is limited, so don’t waste it living someone else’s life. Don’t be trapped by dogma – which is living with the results of other people’s thinking. Don’t let the noise of other’s opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.”

    He later went to India instead and lived his spiritual life of inner guidance as a Buddhist. He stayed true to his heart and intuition. In doing so he changed the entire world for the better. The technology he both invented and developed  has improved the lives of literally billions of people. Likewise Steve Wozniak’s patent on how to do interlaced video on the original 6502 CPU chip is still breathtaking. The engineers he went to at Hewlett Packard for design help told him to get out of their offices because it just could not be done! He followed his heart and intuiton too and, again, the rest is history. That patent got Apple Computer started on the journey that led to where the company is today on the forefront of technical innovation.

    There is no place for people like that in the Baha’i Faith anymore. Thinking for yourself is absolutely forbidden! You will get an inquisition call from an ABM if someone reports you for unauthorized thinking. Loose talk of individual “inner guidance” or inner personal “conscience” is blasphemy! . That is unauthorized thinking as an individual. Unauthorized thinking as an individual can get you declared a Covenant Breaker in the Baha’i Faith these days. That is the way it all went. So I am glad these two engineering Souls followed their inner guidance and did their life’s work every day and thereby changed the entire world as each of us should try to do.

    Again, an interesting footnote to history.

    So it goes!

  • Sweetie

    Its very nice. 7 new houses of worship

  • Kratos

    wow, that’s exactly the most needed and useful thing that could be done for this world! Only a house of Justice can do that. Let’s bend down to its obvious superiority of mind, that all encompasses and that surely must decide over our lives and deaths. Such a genius action can only come from an INFALLIBLE body!

    yes, very “nice”. the Infallible Body is nice. nice is all you need

  • Fubar

    I’ve read a fair amount about Fascism, and it does have some things in common with groupthink/conformist religions like bahaism, but it basic features are considerably different.

    Fascism was an offshoot of the “romanticist” rejection of modernism that also have rise to Marxism. All major Fascist leaders were originally Marxists who changed camps when they thought that Leftism could not solve the problems (social injustices) of Industrialism.

    The Catholic church initially empowered Facsism, thinking that it could be used an effective tool against communism. The tail ended up wagging the dog, and the Fascists subverted the church to their ends.

    Fascism resulted from an economic and cultural crisis in the middle classes (caused by WWI and early socialism’s failures). Fascism depended on charismatic leaders who claimed to be Heroic figures acting from a mystical connection to the Will of the People. Fascism had a strongly populist appeal to societies beset by anxieties.

    Technically speaking, Fascism no longer exists. There are some residual neo-Fascists on the fringe and some residual communities in Spain that are still run by people that are descended from Fascists, but they have more or less adjusted to a new world.

    Professor Gerhard Rempel at Western New England College
    Created by MacGary’s Web.
    All pages © 1998 Gerhard Rempel. All rights reserved.
    The Origins of Fascism

  • Fubar

    Excerpts from “Origins of Fascism”: http://bahairants.com/merry-christmas-to-one-and-all-571.html

  • Kratos

    Organized religions, fascism, communism, consumerism, high school culture and hierarchies: all very similar to me. 

  • Loc

    The symphony-composer analogy is also another favorite metaphor with insidious implications. 

  • Hanstellih

    Messers Craig and Fubar,

    What hell are you doing that just ill treated the faith that you have once been a member.
    You are just professing calumny against and polluted your spirit and mind.

    If you think for a second  considering better why then not shown compassion.
    And you are incapable as witnessed on this blog so you are worst than the one you are abasing..

    A great soul with a great mind will show forgiveness and compassion.

    Nima.(Wahid Azal)

    I am still waiting your publish  translation of the “”POINT””


  • Justice

    In the Peace Message to all the Rulers of the World the UHJ wrote that “the full equality of women is a prerequisite of Peace”. Thus when the UHJ says women will NEVER be allowed to be part of the supreme decision making of the Baha’i Religion, they are admitting to the World that the Baha’i Faith is not going to EVER produce PEACE, and fulfill the Author’s goal of UNITY.

    Thus, all the literature and new ‘Buildings’ that make a claim of UNITY is a ‘falsehood’, and as such the Faith could be brought to Court for not delivering on its promises of full equality for men, women, and all people alike.

    “With the Power of Equality injustice will be no more” – Qurratu’l-Ayn Tahirih, circa 1840’s

  • rhapsodist

     When the Universal House of Justice urges people to keep abreast of World News and to be engaged in their local communities, I find it difficult to understand how the Baha’i community can be growing more “insular”….

  • rhapsodist

    I think you give more power to the UHJ than is actually there. While described as most direct connection we have in this age to the voice of God, they’re a court, not an entire gov’t. The body politic is still separate from the UHJ.

  • Kratos

    Equality, unity, feminism (aka equality between man and woman): all very naive ideas (aka utopias). 

  • Justice

     ‘Equality’ and like terms/ideas in the context of ‘Wholeness, Peace, Harmony, Ascension’, etc., are actually fundamental to aligning with the Divine Will. However, for those who work to maintain the opposite in an illusional world construct would not like people to work symbiotically. I heard Satan is prepared to defer to an unfolding world that works for everyone, now you probably think that is really scary.

  • Justice

     The body politic doesn’t really work in separation in a Baha’i World Commonwealth (the goal of the phallic institution) – thus the word of god coming through it is completely lacking in Spirit and in the end anti-climatic. So, I agree, no real power there.

    However, it is brave of the old boys to admit, as a collective, that in fact, they do not support the fundamentals of Peace on Earth where full equality of rights is a prerequisite. Women will NEVER be fully equal in the BF.  It is as clear as the noon-day sun. It’s a logical deduction right there in front of everyone

    The membership will say, in robotic egotic chorus, ‘we don’t know why God doesn’t want women as part of the top decision making, yet we are content to accept it because we believe in Baha’u’llah and his system. Peace is something way off into the future, so we don’t have to be concerned about equality in the now.

    The Soul Intelligence ‘knows’ this injustice of inequality is a lie and communicates this ‘feeling’ in/through the heart. When a person gets in touch with the feelings/knowledge of ones’ heart then the person intrinsically becomes aware that this practice of discrimination is a false practice and NOT of Source Will – not of the Major Plan whatsoever.

    The Soul is actually the Creating-Source-Essence within every individual did they but know, and the Heart is its Intelligence communication point. This is how one knows what is egotic-mind garble and what is in alignment with Source Information – and in this day Faith is “Conscious Knowledge and active deeds”, not bot programming.

  • Kratos

    Please, sell your new age crap to the next simpleton. What you call “divine will” I’m pretty sure it’s YOUR illusional world construct. 

    We are all separated individuals on this world and nothing except the individual matters. Collective thinking is nothing. You should study Satan better, he’s not such a bad guy. Read the satanic “rules”: they make much more sense and are much more relevant to today’s life in society than those of any other religion. 

  • Baquia

    Kratos, this is a gentle reminder to focus on issues being discussed rather than to make a dialogue personal and introduce insulting personal attacks.

  • Justice

    Yes, lets talk to the issues please – like where and ‘what powers’ the thoughts of those writing Ridvan Messages and the like – are their collective thoughts really in alignment with the Word? Whose to say, the ITC prerequisite brain imprints? Sometimes it can be a crap-toss and isn’t relative to peace on earth whatsoever.

    Kratos: You should study Satan better, he’s not such a bad guy. Read the satanic “rules”:

    Justice: Now, the Evil Whisperer (Satan) whispers in mens’ breasts (ego) and was created by the same impulse that created the world in which ‘you’ are living according to bahai scripture, right? So we are not necessarily saying Satan is a bad guy, but a consciousness that is needed to live where you do at present.

    In this way your mind is run by the one you are ‘choosing’ to whisper in your breast. However, as the following videos explain these whispers are superimposing upon the Original software which you and other Beings have been endowed – the software that connects to Source information and Plans (replace the word ‘Jesus’ with ‘Source’ when listening):


    Since science is discovering that decisions and thoughts are discerned in the human brain before they are energetically experienced in the conscious mind (whisperings) you might want to do some more investigation into ‘Free-will’ and illusions of it (Sam Harris):

     – Part 1

     Part 2

     Part 3

    The point is that the nine men and others writing stuff and stuff can fill 
    your mind (ego-satan-whispers) so that you can’t even hear the messages
    of your original blueprint design. The irony is that you think you are
    thinking yourself  :-(. This why it is important for the “I AM (God
    within) to choose to be PRESENT in all Living Moment without
    whisperings from any Mr. In-Between.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1yNJXRoh3s  – choosing
    creations’ Intelligent Mind (where all Knowledge dwells) and folks can access it for living in the now in whatever world they may be conceiving. The Soul of Beings recognize Truth – and when a crap-toss doesn’t register with Soul it helps to let it go.


  • Hanstellih

     kratos ,
    You are the most ridiculous person on this blog.

    You think you are better.

    You are but insult to yourself.

    Mr. Nima,

    when will you release the book of the Point.

  • Justice

    Sweetie writes: Its very nice. 7 new houses of worship.

    Would someone kindly explain the Funding for these new houses of worship. Where is the money coming from for such an expansion goal? Thank you.

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  • Lea

    The United States is always asked to give the lion’s share of the funding. They set up a special fund for anyone to give to and then let the American Baha’is know (and are told) that it can’t be built unless the American Bahai’s sacrifice. I am not sure if this is communicated only through assemblies or if they are open about the American Bahai’s having this opportunity or burden depending on your point of view. They always have some special fund or another to do maintenance on a building or build a new building. They see it as an effective way to seperate funds from the believers. This technique is never going to end. The funding will not be a problem. The rank and file believer isn’t giving any indication they are rebelling against the building initiatives.