Comments on: Short Term Memory http://bahairants.com/short-term-memory-92.html A personal Baha'i blog. Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:07:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Annonymouz http://bahairants.com/short-term-memory-92.html#comment-54057 Annonymouz Wed, 23 Jul 2008 21:20:32 +0000 http://bahairants.com/short-term-memory-92.html#comment-54057 EP you are a misleading and really simply lying here. Would you like me to give some examples of your miss-statements? EP you are a misleading and really simply lying here. Would you like me to give some examples of your miss-statements?

]]> By: ep http://bahairants.com/short-term-memory-92.html#comment-54055 ep Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:45:13 +0000 http://bahairants.com/short-term-memory-92.html#comment-54055 Late 1980s. For contact info: google "Steve Scholl White Cloud Press" used to be in Medford, Oregon. Or contact Tony Lee, Kalimat Press (Los Angeles, California). I was raised as a social activist in the 60s, and was completely appalled after becoming a bahai that (so called) "political" activities were prohibited such as being an environmentalist, protesting violations of human rights and social justice. The FBI probably infiltrated the bahai community in the 50s/60s (see another thread on this blog). Meaning that at a minimum, the bahai leadership elites got much more "conservative" about politics to avoid scrutiny. Abdul-baha was very involved in politics and protest, including assigning a Hand of the Cause to the new Parliament in Iran when it was first established. Due to corrupt "bahai" politicians in Iran, Shoghi Effendi later placed absurd restrictions on everyone. It is pure hypocrisy that bahais get involved in "politics" related to persecution of iranian bahais, but other bahais are prohibited from supporting social justice issues that do not involve iranian persecutions (e.g., Darfur, Tibet). Conservatives (catholics) in europe, and people influenced by them such as Shoghi Effendi (extensive catholic education), thought that they could use fascism/nazism to destroy communism. Unfortunately the fascists/fazis ended up using the conservatives, not the other way around. Read all of Shoghe Effendi's writings on politics/governance and you will see that Shoghi Effendi's New World Order (Odor?) was to be a revived form of imperial Christendom with Sufi/Islamic (bahai) "theocratic" variations. The bahai New World Odor had to be an imperialist theocracy because that is what SE apparently thought was necessary to wipe out 1) what later came to be called "3rd world national liberation movements", which SE clearly was NOT in favor of, and 2) "spiritual corruption" in the capitalist democracies. Both fascism and communism originated in romanticism, which was a european "spiritual" reaction against the "conditions of modernity" (capitalism, science, technology, democracy). Philosophical, bahai is not compatible with the paradigm of modernist democracy (which destroyed both communism and fascism). Which is why almost no one joins it, and shy food fights break out every once in a while about what bahais "really" believe in. Any "spiritual" reform philosophy, especially those established by slave owners of antiquity who dabbled in esoteric "spiritual" metaphysics in their spare time, has to come to terms with modernity and evolutionary theory. However, most, including bahai, have not done so, leaving confused followers. Keven Brown attempted to retranslate and redeem abdul-baha's bizarre statements about evolution (with support from the UHJ/BWC), with limited success. Eric P. (ex-bahai, 30+ years) Sacramento [quote comment="54050"]Unfortunately I do not have any more information right now on the original article or what changes were made Prescilla. The best people to ask would be those who were involved with Dialogue.[/quote] [quote comment=""]Unfortunately I do not have any more information right now on the original article or what changes were made Prescilla. The best people to ask would be those who were involved with Dialogue.[/quote] Late 1980s. For contact info: google “Steve Scholl White Cloud Press” used to be in Medford, Oregon. Or contact Tony Lee, Kalimat Press (Los Angeles, California).

I was raised as a social activist in the 60s, and was completely appalled after becoming a bahai that (so called) “political” activities were prohibited such as being an environmentalist, protesting violations of human rights and social justice. The FBI probably infiltrated the bahai community in the 50s/60s (see another thread on this blog). Meaning that at a minimum, the bahai leadership elites got much more “conservative” about politics to avoid scrutiny. Abdul-baha was very involved in politics and protest, including assigning a Hand of the Cause to the new Parliament in Iran when it was first established. Due to corrupt “bahai” politicians in Iran, Shoghi Effendi later placed absurd restrictions on everyone.

It is pure hypocrisy that bahais get involved in “politics” related to persecution of iranian bahais, but other bahais are prohibited from supporting social justice issues that do not involve iranian persecutions (e.g., Darfur, Tibet).

Conservatives (catholics) in europe, and people influenced by them such as Shoghi Effendi (extensive catholic education), thought that they could use fascism/nazism to destroy communism. Unfortunately the fascists/fazis ended up using the conservatives, not the other way around.

Read all of Shoghe Effendi’s writings on politics/governance and you will see that Shoghi Effendi’s New World Order (Odor?) was to be a revived form of imperial Christendom with Sufi/Islamic (bahai) “theocratic” variations.

The bahai New World Odor had to be an imperialist theocracy because that is what SE apparently thought was necessary to wipe out 1) what later came to be called “3rd world national liberation movements”, which SE clearly was NOT in favor of, and 2) “spiritual corruption” in the capitalist democracies.

Both fascism and communism originated in romanticism, which was a european “spiritual” reaction against the “conditions of modernity” (capitalism, science, technology, democracy).

Philosophical, bahai is not compatible with the paradigm of modernist democracy (which destroyed both communism and fascism).

Which is why almost no one joins it, and shy food fights break out every once in a while about what bahais “really” believe in.

Any “spiritual” reform philosophy, especially those established by slave owners of antiquity who dabbled in esoteric “spiritual” metaphysics in their spare time, has to come to terms with modernity and evolutionary theory. However, most, including bahai, have not done so, leaving confused followers.

Keven Brown attempted to retranslate and redeem abdul-baha’s bizarre statements about evolution (with support from the UHJ/BWC), with limited success.

Eric P.
(ex-bahai, 30+ years)
Sacramento

Unfortunately I do not have any more information right now on the original article or what changes were made Prescilla. The best people to ask would be those who were involved with Dialogue.

Unfortunately I do not have any more information right now on the original article or what changes were made Prescilla. The best people to ask would be those who were involved with Dialogue.

]]> By: Baquia http://bahairants.com/short-term-memory-92.html#comment-54050 Baquia Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:58:04 +0000 http://bahairants.com/short-term-memory-92.html#comment-54050 Unfortunately I do not have any more information right now on the original article or what changes were made Prescilla. The best people to ask would be those who were involved with Dialogue. Unfortunately I do not have any more information right now on the original article or what changes were made Prescilla. The best people to ask would be those who were involved with Dialogue.

]]> By: Priscilla http://bahairants.com/short-term-memory-92.html#comment-54046 Priscilla Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:43:37 +0000 http://bahairants.com/short-term-memory-92.html#comment-54046 [quote post="92"]In the end, the article was allowed to appear after several changes had been made.[/quote] Baquia, Re-reading this post I noticed the above quoted statement. It seems that, despite the objections, the article was actually allowed to go through. I wonder what the changes were. Do you know? I totally agree with you that there is hypocrisy in the Baha'i world in this department; I have been puzzling over this lately and am trying to figure out how to pin it down. But the specifics of this example are not quite as strong as I had remembered them being, though this line is totally chilling: “Scholl was warned that to criticize the South African policy of apartheid might endanger the Baha’i community in that country.” BTW do you know a more specific date for this than the ‘70s? best, Priscilla

In the end, the article was allowed to appear after several changes had been made.

Baquia,

Re-reading this post I noticed the above quoted statement. It seems that, despite the objections, the article was actually allowed to go through. I wonder what the changes were. Do you know? I totally agree with you that there is hypocrisy in the Baha’i world in this department; I have been puzzling over this lately and am trying to figure out how to pin it down. But the specifics of this example are not quite as strong as I had remembered them being, though this line is totally chilling: “Scholl was warned that to criticize the South African policy of apartheid might endanger the Baha’i community in that country.”

BTW do you know a more specific date for this than the ‘70s?

best,
Priscilla

]]> By: Baquia http://bahairants.com/short-term-memory-92.html#comment-176 Baquia Fri, 28 Apr 2006 00:37:40 +0000 http://bahairants.com/short-term-memory-92.html#comment-176 nwcoastguy, well, what can I say? its tragic and sad. Instead of revelling in the Shiite tradition of martyrdom, why can't we do what is best for people so that they live productive and happy lives? And if that means leaving a country, so what? Didn't someone wise once say: Let not man glory in this that he loveth his country, let him rather glory in this that he loveth his kind. Khaled, nice to meet you and thanks for the link to your blog. The content of that letter are pretty self-explanatory. The Baha'i AO has developed its own vocabulary within a very short period of time and it is as distasteful as that of the Bolsheviks. "not in the best interests of the Faith" is Baha'i speak for 'do not do it'. nwcoastguy,
well, what can I say? its tragic and sad. Instead of revelling in the Shiite tradition of martyrdom, why can’t we do what is best for people so that they live productive and happy lives? And if that means leaving a country, so what? Didn’t someone wise once say: Let not man glory in this that he loveth his country, let him rather glory in this that he loveth his kind.

Khaled,
nice to meet you and thanks for the link to your blog. The content of that letter are pretty self-explanatory. The Baha’i AO has developed its own vocabulary within a very short period of time and it is as distasteful as that of the Bolsheviks. “not in the best interests of the Faith” is Baha’i speak for ‘do not do it’.

]]> By: Khaled http://bahairants.com/short-term-memory-92.html#comment-174 Khaled Fri, 21 Apr 2006 14:57:16 +0000 http://bahairants.com/short-term-memory-92.html#comment-174 i forgot to mention that ido know first person who sent this letter for "information" I As you can guess I am bahai who likes to ask questions this is first time ive put something of thsese kind of thoughts out there to everybody to see. feel free to read my blog, God! i relly love internet :) and i like to be informed of whats going on :) i forgot to mention that ido know first person who sent this letter for “information” I As you can guess I am bahai who likes to ask questions
this is first time ive put something of thsese kind of thoughts out there to everybody to see. feel free to read my blog, God! i relly love internet :) and i like to be informed of whats going on :)

]]> By: Khaled http://bahairants.com/short-term-memory-92.html#comment-173 Khaled Fri, 21 Apr 2006 14:46:57 +0000 http://bahairants.com/short-term-memory-92.html#comment-173 Hi, I have something you might be interested to see that is about the issue, a fwd letter that initially was sent to one Bahai i dont know from Office of Public Information, that perplexed me. http://khalblogstan.blogspot.com/2006/04/not-in-best-intererest-of-faith-letter.html Hi, I have something you might be interested to see that is about the issue, a fwd letter that initially was sent to one Bahai i dont know from Office of Public Information, that perplexed me.
http://khalblogstan.blogspot.com/2006/04/not-in-best-intererest-of-faith-letter.html

]]> By: nwcoastguy http://bahairants.com/short-term-memory-92.html#comment-172 nwcoastguy Wed, 19 Apr 2006 06:21:17 +0000 http://bahairants.com/short-term-memory-92.html#comment-172 I'm a former Bahai' from many years gone by. I have family members who are still devouted to the Faith and I must say, I have been to a large degree shaped by my upbringing in the Faith. This issue of not speaking up comes flying out of the past like a rocket. It is certainly one of the reasons I (and I can't believe others) left the Bahai Faith. The requirement to "keep the peace" and sit quietly by while people are tortured and discriminated against is bizarre. Twenty years later I can still hear people saying that "the Bahai's of Iran were warned about this" as some sort of "response" to what was happening in Iran. I think we now call this blaming the victim. I’m a former Bahai’ from many years gone by. I have family members who are still devouted to the Faith and I must say, I have been to a large degree shaped by my upbringing in the Faith.

This issue of not speaking up comes flying out of the past like a rocket. It is certainly one of the reasons I (and I can’t believe others) left the Bahai Faith. The requirement to “keep the peace” and sit quietly by while people are tortured and discriminated against is bizarre. Twenty years later I can still hear people saying that “the Bahai’s of Iran were warned about this” as some sort of “response” to what was happening in Iran. I think we now call this blaming the victim.

]]> By: Baquia http://bahairants.com/short-term-memory-92.html#comment-167 Baquia Tue, 11 Apr 2006 19:50:40 +0000 http://bahairants.com/short-term-memory-92.html#comment-167 <p>Thanks for the note Sima. I'll correct the post asap re the non-affiliation to the NSA or other institutions. Can you tell me how you skirted around the ICANN laws to get around the TLDcc (denial.co.za) limitations? afaik, you have to have a business or trademark for denial to get that URL. Or you could lie and pretend that your surname is denial. You went with the latter, according to whois data.</p> <p><a href="http://co.za/cgi-bin/whois.sh?Domain=denial&Enter=Enter" rel="nofollow">4a. admin : Denial, Education<br /> 4b. admintitle : Mr<br /> 4c. admincompany : Denial<br /> 4d. adminpostaladdr : L.J Road #1, Mahim, Mumbai, India<br /> 4e. adminphone : +91222444914<br /> 4f. adminfax : +91222444913<br /> 4g. adminemail : denial@rediffmail.com</a></p> <p>You say:</p> <p>"There is a very distinct line here between the role of the Bahai's around the world during apartheid years, and the role of the Bahai's around the world now with regards to the situation in Iran."</p> <p>There is? Really? So Baha'is around the world and inside SA, during apartheid should have kept their mouth shut and not said or done anything... but Baha'is around the world during the persecution of Baha'is in Iran should not?</p> <p>Why?</p> <p>What is the difference?</p> <p>Did you know that about 2 years ago the <a href="http://bahairants.blogspot.com/2004/12/iranian-bahais-letter-to-iri.html" rel="nofollow">Baha'is inside Iran</a> sent a <a href="http://bahairants.blogspot.com/2004/12/real-mccoy.html" rel="nofollow">letter to the IRI</a> protesting their treatment? But afaik, the Baha'is inside SA never sent any letter protesting the treatment of blacks? Why not?</p> <p>Is hypocrasi/y spelled with a 'y' or an 'i'? Just wondering if you know. I'm terrible at spelling.</p> <p>Furthermore, you stress 'raising awareness'. When I mentioned the episode with Dialogue magazine and their being muzzled by the NSA of the US... that is EXACTLY what they were trying to do.</p> <p>RAISE AWARENESS of apartheid. That's why I titled the post "Short Term Memory". Get it? I guess not. People don't remember those times. And they don't realize just how out of whack that policy is. I was trying to show exactly that by juxtaposing it with the denial.co.za website.</p> <p>And finally, how exactly are we buliding the NWO? does it involve taking Ruhi 3 times, over and over again? Or is it through stacking carrera marble on top of a mountain? Gimme a clue. </p> Thanks for the note Sima. I’ll correct the post asap re the non-affiliation to the NSA or other institutions. Can you tell me how you skirted around the ICANN laws to get around the TLDcc (denial.co.za) limitations? afaik, you have to have a business or trademark for denial to get that URL. Or you could lie and pretend that your surname is denial. You went with the latter, according to whois data.

4a. admin : Denial, Education
4b. admintitle : Mr
4c. admincompany : Denial
4d. adminpostaladdr : L.J Road #1, Mahim, Mumbai, India
4e. adminphone : +91222444914
4f. adminfax : +91222444913
4g. adminemail : denial@rediffmail.com

You say:

“There is a very distinct line here between the role of the Bahai’s around the world during apartheid years, and the role of the Bahai’s around the world now with regards to the situation in Iran.”

There is? Really? So Baha’is around the world and inside SA, during apartheid should have kept their mouth shut and not said or done anything… but Baha’is around the world during the persecution of Baha’is in Iran should not?

Why?

What is the difference?

Did you know that about 2 years ago the Baha’is inside Iran sent a letter to the IRI protesting their treatment? But afaik, the Baha’is inside SA never sent any letter protesting the treatment of blacks? Why not?

Is hypocrasi/y spelled with a ‘y’ or an ‘i’? Just wondering if you know. I’m terrible at spelling.

Furthermore, you stress ‘raising awareness’. When I mentioned the episode with Dialogue magazine and their being muzzled by the NSA of the US… that is EXACTLY what they were trying to do.

RAISE AWARENESS of apartheid. That’s why I titled the post “Short Term Memory”. Get it? I guess not. People don’t remember those times. And they don’t realize just how out of whack that policy is. I was trying to show exactly that by juxtaposing it with the denial.co.za website.

And finally, how exactly are we buliding the NWO? does it involve taking Ruhi 3 times, over and over again? Or is it through stacking carrera marble on top of a mountain? Gimme a clue.

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