Teaching vs. Proselytizing: UHJ Letter

bahai-teach-or-proselytizeA while back we talked about the difference between teaching and proselytizing. This is becoming more and more of an issue as Baha’is are being prodded to use more “direct” teaching methods. These involve going door to door in neighborhoods – something which we, at one point, were proud that we didn’t do.

27 years ago someone was concerned about this and wrote to the Universal House of Justice. And they wrote back the better below. By the way, if you have a question for the UHJ, you can easily email them using this email address: secretariat @ bwc [dot] org

The first part deals with the question but it also veers off into a discussion of the Covenant and the difference between interpretation and legislation. I’m assuming that the questioner brought these topics forward, otherwise, it is a stretch to link them to the question of proselytizing vs. teaching.

It is also interesting that at the end of the letter, the House of Justice says:

For this reason a number of points are not expressed in the, National Baha’i Constitution (the Declaration of Trust and By-Laws of National Assemblies); these are left to each National Spiritual Assembly to decide for itself.

When in fact, the document in question was changed in recent history (from its previous wording) to disallow National Spiritual Assemblies from instituting such changes as term limits.

In any case, here is the complete letter:

The Universal House of Justice
The Bahá’í World Centre
3 January 1982

To an individual Baha’i

Dear Baha’i Friend,
The Universal House of Justice has received your letter and has asked us to assure you that you should feel no diffidence in raising the sort of questions that you have expressed. It seems clear from your letter that you have been greatly attracted to the Message of Baha’u'llah and have accepted His Faith before, as you say, becoming “fully committed,” and are, therefore, now having to face and resolve problems that many believers overcome before they declare their faith. The House of justice urges you not to let it worry you. All through life Baha’is are faced with tests of many kinds, and problems and doubts, but it is through facing and overcoming them that we grow spiritually.

On the particular issues that you raise, the House of Justice has instructed us to send you the following comments.

Teaching vs. Proselytizing
It is true that Baha’u'llah lays on every Baha’i the duty to teach His Faith. At the same time, however, we are forbidden to proselytize, so it is important for all believers to understand the difference between teaching and proselytizing. It is a significant difference and, in some countries where teaching a religion is permitted, but proselytizing is forbidden, the distinction is made in the law of the land. Proselytizing implies bringing undue pressure to bear upon someone to change his Faith. It is also usually understood to imply the making of threats or the offering of material benefits as an inducement to conversion. In some countries mission schools or hospitals, for all the good they do, are regarded with suspicion and even aversion by the local authorities because they are considered to be material inducements to conversion and hence instruments of proselytization.

Baha’u'llah, in The Hidden Words, says, “O Son of Dust! The wise are they that speak not unless they obtain a hearing, even as the cup-bearer, who proffereth not his cup till he findeth a seeker, and the lover who crieth not out from the depths of his heart until he gazeth upon the beauty of his beloved …. “, and on page 55 of The Advent of Divine Justice, a letter which is primarily directed towards exhorting the friends to fulfill their responsibilities in teaching the Faith, Shoghi Effendi writes: “Care, however, should, at all times, be exercised, lest in their eagerness to further the international interests of the Faith they frustrate their purpose, and turn away, through any act that might be misconstrued as an attempt to proselytize and bring undue pressure upon them, those whom they wish to win over to their Cause.” Some Baha’is sometimes overstep the proper bounds, but this does not alter the clear principle.

The responsibility of the Baha’is to teach the Faith is very great. The contraction of the world and the onward rush of events require us to seize every chance open to us to touch the hearts and minds of our fellowmen. The Message of Baha’u'llah is God’s guidance for mankind to overcome the difficulties of this age of transition and move forward into the next stage of its evolution, and human beings have the right to hear it. Those who accept it incur the duty of passing it on to their fellowman. The slowness of the response of the world has caused and is causing great suffering; hence the historical pressure upon Baha’is to exert every effort to teach the Faith for the sake of their fellowmen. They should teach with enthusiasm, conviction, wisdom and courtesy, but without pressing their hearer, bearing in mind the words of Baha’u'llah: “Beware lest ye contend with any one, nay, strive to make him aware of the truth with kindly manner and most convincing exhortation. If your hearer respond, he will have responded to his own behoof, and if not, turn ye away from him, and set your faces towards God’s sacred Court, the seat of resplendent holiness.”

Considerations in the Application of Baha’i Social Teachings
The application and development of the social aspects of the Teachings is dependent on the stage of growth of the Baha’i community in each area, and on worldwide priorities. We are living in an age of transition, and as ‘Abdu’l-Baha explained, we must, in order to succeed in our aims, sacrifice the important for the most important. The House of Justice, for example, had to turn down the request of certain believers to establish Baha’i schools in a Western country which already had a functioning state educational system; those Baha’i funds which are available for educational projects must be spent on the establishment and running of schools in areas where there are large Baha’i communities of poor people, with no adequate system of education available to them. In its answer, the House of Justice pointed out that if these friends, on their own initiative, wished to establish their own school, run on Baha’i lines, and financially self-supporting, they were entirely free to do so. This highlights an aspect of the matter which is often overlooked. The social services of Baha’is are not restricted to what they do as a community Every Baha’i has a duty to work and earn his living, and in choosing a career a Baha’i should consider not only its earning capacity but also the benefit of the work to his fellowmen. All over the world Baha’is are rendering outstanding services in this way.

When a Baha’i community is very small, there is little that it can do to implement the social teachings of the Faith (beyond their impact on the behavior of individual believers), because such a community with the resources in funds and manpower at its disposal is but a drop in the ocean in comparison with the many large agencies, governmental and private, which are engaged in social improvement. When the Baha’i community grows sufficiently large, however, its activities can and must proliferate and diversify. This development is already taking place in many parts of the world. In India, for example, the New Era School in Panchgani, which has been developing remarkably for a number of years, is closely associated with a rural development project in the villages close by that is having dramatically favorable results in the life of the villagers. In the province of Madhya Pradesh, where there are hundreds of thousands of Baha’is, the Rabbani School in Gwalior is educating children from the villages of the area in the Teachings of the Faith, in academic subjects and in agriculture, so that when they return to their home villages, these pupils not only promote the Faith but will influence their growth and development in every way. In Ecuador, as you no doubt know, the size of the Baha’i community, scattered over inaccessible terrain in the high Andes, made it both necessary and possible some years ago to establish a Baha’i radio station.2 “Radio Baha’i,” as it is known, broadcasts not only about the Faith, but has programs concerning health, agriculture, literacy and so on. It has now become so well established and highly regarded that it has been able to apply for and receive a Canadian Government grant through CIDA to finance the development of certain social service activities. Thus it can be seen that once the Baha’i community attains a certain stature it is able to work in fruitful collaboration with non-Baha’i agencies in its social activities.

A further aspect of this kind of work is the collaboration between the Baha’i International Community and the United Nations. Having consultative status with both ECOSOC and UNICEF, and long association with the Department of Public Information, the Baha’i International Community is able to take part in conferences and consultations on many aspects of human development, both from the point of view of the Baha’i Teachings and with the background of its extensive experience in meeting the problems of developing countries, such as illiteracy, the status of women, tribalism, racial prejudice, and so on.

As you can see, all these developments relate directly to the teaching work inasmuch as the Baha’i communities must reach a certain size before they can begin to implement many of them. How, for example, can a Baha’i community demonstrate effectively the abolition of prejudices which divide the inhabitants of a country until it has a cross-section of those inhabitants within its ranks? A seed is the vital origin of a tree and of a tremendous importance for that reason, but it cannot produce fruit until it has grown into a tree and flowered and fruited. So a Baha’i community of nine believers is a vital step, since it can bring into being for that locality the divine institution of the Local Spiritual Assembly, but it is still only a seed, and needs to grow in size and in the diversity of its members before it can produce really convincing fruit for its fellow citizens.

One could say, however, that the Baha’i communities could assist in social development from a very early stage in their development by supporting the activities of other groups who are, at this point, more numerous and powerful. To some extent this is true, provided that such involvement does not divert the efforts of the friends from the more fundamentally important teaching work or involve them in the disputes of non-Baha’i rival groups.

Humanity’s Most Urgent Need
The teaching work is of primary importance for this reason: the most urgent need of human beings is to recognize the Manifestation of God and thereby to learn how to collaborate constructively. All over the world tremendous efforts are being made to improve the lot of mankind or of parts of mankind, but most of these efforts are frustrated by the conflicts of aims, by corruption of the morals of those involved, by mistrust, or by fear. There is no lack of material resources in the world if they are properly used. The problem is the education of human beings in the ultimate and most important purpose of life and in how to weld the differences of opinion and outlook into a united constructive effort. Baha’is believe that God has revealed the purpose of life, has shown us how to attain it, has provided the ways in which we can work together and, beyond that, has given mankind the assurance both of continuing divine guidance and of divine assistance. As people learn and follow these teachings their efforts will produce durable results. In the absence of these teachings, a lifetime of effort only too often ends in disillusionment and the collapse of all that has been built.

It is not easy for people to learn the Baha’i way, to overcome their inherited prejudices or to resist their personal temptations. This way takes time, is subject to checks and backsliding, but one can see, looking at the past 138 years, that there is an overall advance that is astonishing in the light of the obstacles to be overcome, and is accelerating with every passing decade.

Obstacle to Progress: Getting Sucked Into Prevailing Attitudes
One of the great obstacles to progress is the tendency of Baha’is to be sucked into the general attitudes and disputes that surround them, to be influenced, for example, as you yourself pointed out, by the prevailing attitude to marriage so that the divorce rate becomes a problem within the Baha’i community itself which should be an example to the rest of society in such matters. Involvement in politics and controversial questions is another aspect of the same phenomenon. In one of His Tablets Baha’u'llah warns the Baha’is: “Dispute not with any one concerning the things of this world and its affairs, for God hath abandoned them to such as have set their affection upon them. Out of the whole world He hath chosen for Himself the hearts of men — hearts which the hosts of revelation and of utterance can subdue.” As you realize, this cannot mean that Baha’is must not be controversial since, in many societies, being a Baha’i is itself a controversial matter. The central importance of this principle of avoidance of politics and controversial matters is that Baha’is should not allow themselves to be drawn into the disputes of the many conflicting elements of the society around them. The aim of the Baha’is is to reconcile, to heal divisions, to bring about tolerance and mutual respect among men, and this aim is undermined if we allow ourselves to be swept along by the ephemeral passions of others. This does not mean that Baha’is cannot collaborate with any non-Baha’i movement; it does mean that good judgment is required to distinguish those activities and associations which are beneficial and constructive from those which are divisive.

The Uniqueness of the Baha’i Covenant
The House of Justice hopes that these explanations will help you to understand some of the aspects of the Faith that have been troubling you. The crux of the matter, as you realize, is the acceptance of spiritual authority and what this implies. You express the fear that the authority conferred upon Abdu’l-Baha, the Guardian and the Universal House of Justice could lead to a progressive reduction in the “available scope for personal interpretation,” and that 11 the actual writings of the Manifestation will have less and less import,” and you instance what has happened in previous Dispensations. The House of Justice suggests that, in thinking about this, you contemplate the way the Covenant of Baha’u'llah has actually worked, and you will be able to see how very different its processes are from those of, say, the development of the law in Rabbinical Judaism or the functioning of the Papacy in Christianity. The practice in the past in these two religions, and also to a great extent in Islam, has been to assume that the Revelation given by the Founder was the final, perfect revelation of God’s Will to mankind, and all subsequent elucidation and legislation has been interpretative in the sense that it aimed at applying this basic Revelation to the new problems and situations that have arisen. The Baha’i premises are quite different. Although the Revelation of Baha’u'llah is accepted as the Word of God and His Law as the Law of God, it is understood from the outset that Revelation is progressive, and that the Law, although the Will of God for this Age, will undoubtedly be changed by the next Manifestation of God. Secondly, only the written text of the Revelation is regarded as authoritative. There is no Oral Law as in Judaism, no Tradition of the Church as in Christianity, no Hadith as in Islam. Thirdly, a clear distinction is drawn between interpretation and legislation. Authoritative interpretation is the exclusive prerogative of Abdu’l-Baha and the Guardian, while infallible legislation is the function of the Universal House of Justice.

If you study the Writings of Abdu’l-Baha and of the Guardian, you will see how tremendously they differ from the interpretations of the Rabbis and the Church. They are not a progressive fossilization of the Revelation, they are for the most part expositions which throw a clear light upon passages which may have been considered obscure, they point up the intimate interrelationship between various teachings, they expound the implications of scriptural allusions, and they educate the Baha’is in the tremendous significances of the Words of Baha’u'llah. Rather than in any way supplanting the Words of the Manifestation, they lead us back to them time and again.

Authoritative vs. Individual interpretation
There is also an important distinction made in the Faith between authoritative interpretation, as described above, and the interpretation which every believer is fully entitled to voice. Believers are free, indeed are encouraged, to study the Writings for themselves and to express their understanding of them. Such personal interpretations can be most illuminating, but all Baha’is, including the one expressing the view, however learned he may be, should realize that it is only a personal view and can never be upheld as a standard for others to accept, nor should disputes ever be permitted to arise over differences in such opinions.

Interpretation and Legislation
The legislation enacted by the Universal House of Justice is different from interpretation. Authoritative interpretation, as uttered by Abdu’l-Baha and the Guardian, is a divinely guided statement of what the Word of God means. The divinely inspired legislation of the Universal House of Justice does not attempt to say what the revealed Word means-it states what must be done in cases where the revealed Text or its authoritative interpretation is not explicit. It is, therefore, on quite a different level from the Sacred Text, and the Universal House of justice is empowered to abrogate or amend its own legislation whenever it judges the conditions make this desirable. Moreover, the attitude to legislation is different in the Baha’i Faith. The human tendency in past Dispensations has been to want every question answered and to arrive at a binding decision affecting every small detail of belief or practice. The tendency in the Baha’i Dispensation, from the time of Baha’u'llah Himself, has been to clarify the governing principles, to make binding pronouncements on details which are considered essential, but to leave a wide area to the conscience of the individual. The same tendency appears also in administrative matters. The Guardian used to state that the working of National Spiritual Assemblies should be uniform in essentials but that diversity in secondary matters was not only permissible but desirable. For this reason a number of points are not expressed in the, National Baha’i Constitution (the Declaration of Trust and By-Laws of National Assemblies); these are left to each National Spiritual Assembly to decide for itself.

The Covenant of Baha’u'llah
The Covenant is the “axis of the oneness of the world of humanity’ because it preserves the unity and integrity of the Faith itself and protects it from being disrupted by individuals who are convinced that only their understanding of the Teachings is the right one-a fate that has overcome all past Revelations. The Covenant is, moreover, embedded in the Writings of Baha’u'llah Himself. Thus, as you clearly see, to accept Baha’u'llah is to accept His Covenant; to reject His Covenant is to reject Him.

The House of Justice asks us to assure you of its loving prayers at the Sacred Threshold for your guidance in your efforts to arrive at a greater understanding of this wonderful Revelation.

With loving greetings,
The Universal House of Justice

Related posts:

  1. Difference Between Proselytizing And Teaching
  2. Door-to-Door Teaching: NSA Letter
  3. Bill Davis Comment On UHJ April 19th Letter
  4. Universal House of Justice Letter on Baha’i Elections

  • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/Baquia Baquia

    Farhan, I've looked but I can't find a recent comment where you have actually responded to something I've written. Perhaps I've missed it so please point it out to me. For example, let's take this thread to which you've commented repeatedly. Where do you address any of the number of points that I have raised? the Willow Creek experience? the cultural framework in relation to Ruhi? or about my query regarding the efficacy of Ruhi? After much back and forth, you begrudgingly said that you would provide some evidence (after previously giving an ethereal response that the 'evidence is everywhere'). And we're still waiting.

    As you have no doubt noticed by now, you are welcome here to exchange ideas. But I have yet to see you actually engaged in a dialogue which even remotely resembles addressing a point or issue that is raised on the blog. But while all are welcome here to exchange ideas in a fruitful manner, did you know that the same courtesy isn't extended by other Baha'i bloggers? That if you disagree with them they censor your comments and erase them?

    I do not doubt your sincerity nor your aspiration to be a good Baha'i. What I do notice is that we approach life from different perspectives. For example, consider this research done on business organizations:

    "After researching more than 750 major business failures in great depth, we came to the conclusion that humans are wired for poor decision-making," says Chunka Mui, a co-author of Billion-Dollar Lessons. "Ego, sunk costs, emotions, self-interest, etc., lead to blind spots. The not-so-intelligent have the same issues, it's just that the stakes are lower". Mui's excavations of ruined business plans led him to conclude that a wise organization vigorously questions its own clever ideas; dissent is encouraged, and skepticism is built in.

    Now of course, a business organization is different from a Baha'i institution. But not that different. They are made up of human beings, with the same frailties, engaged in gathering information and making decisions to arrive at a goal. The mistake that we make is to take deference to authority to an obscene level. There is much wisdom in the Bab's naming of a whole month after Questions. And in Baha'u'llah's in keeping the name. What does that mean if we don't actually use our minds to engage in critical thinking and ask questions? How degenerate when the mere act of asking questions is reduced to blasphemy!

    If I may, I'd like to share with you a story from the medical field which may shed some light on our two separate approaches. Perhaps you've already read "Medication Errors: Causes and Prevention" by Cohen & Davis. In it the authors delve into the process errors that creep into the practice of medicine. In one case, they provide the example of a doctor who, after diagnosing a patient, wrote instructions for the nurse to administer ear drops to the patient's right ear. Of course, being in a hurry, the doctor scribbled: "place in R ear"

    The nurse promptly put the requisite amount of ear drops in the patient's rectum. Now the nurse wasn't stupid. She knew that ear medicine shouldn't go into the rectum. But she had been conditioned by years of experience that you do whatever the doctor says. He or she is the authority! You do not question the doctor! You automatically obey.

    Getting back to our present discussion, it seems to me that we are two different nurses. You are ready to turn the patient over and administer the 'medicine'. While I'm over here shaking my head saying, it doesn't make sense. Before we insert Ruhi into the Baha'i community… let us pause and ask whether this is the right thing to do. Now, you may be right. After all, as Paul Lample said, what do our pyramids look like in our clusters?

    But then again, if our clusters look like pyramids, it is high time to consult a good proctologist.

    (ps you may have the last word on this and other matters. when it comes to sophistry I can not hope to ever equal your skill)

  • farhan

    Baquia, thanks for honouring me with this long post to which I will soon reply point-by-point, hair-by-hair. I have received the French statistics on paper and I will copy some figures, but I am sure the ITC would be happy to provide details of the more than 1000 intensive growth programmes around the world. France is only engaged in 9.

    As to your comment about proctology, you are once again referring to an area of human activity very commonly referred to in messages on your blog. In a garden, flies are attracted to manure, and bees to flowers. Both do God's work in the garden. Some consider reality as sugar-coated manure, I consider reality as biological machine converting manure into flowers, a negative entropy enterprise converting disruption and decay into organisation and beauty.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/farhan farhan

    Baquia, thanks for honouring me with this long post to which I will soon reply point-by-point, hair-by-hair. I have received the French statistics on paper and I will copy some figures, but I am sure the ITC would be happy to provide details of the more than 1000 intensive growth programmes around the world. France is only engaged in 9.

    As to your comment about proctology, you are once again referring to an area of human activity very commonly referred to in messages on your blog. In a garden, flies are attracted to manure, and bees to flowers. Both do God's work in the garden. Some consider reality as sugar-coated manure, I consider reality as biological machine converting manure into flowers, a negative entropy enterprise converting disruption and decay into organisation and beauty.

  • Craig Parke

    Farhan,

    With all due respect, I cannot grasp your analogy here? It is making my head hurt! So I guess I had better go to bed as it is the dead of night here and then try to read it again in the morning to see if I can understand it. "Sugar-coated manure" is not a good image before bed time! But maybe I will have some interesting dreams?

  • Craig Parke

    Farhan,

    With all due respect, I cannot grasp your analogy here? It is making my head hurt! So I guess I had better go to bed as it is the dead of night here and then try to read it again in the morning to see if I can understand it. "Sugar-coated manure" is not a good image before bed time! But maybe I will have some interesting dreams?

  • Grover

    So I guess in your round about way, you are saying that you are a dispenser of manure (BS, rhetoric, buzz words, and sophisms) and we are the gad flies or whatever that are attracted to that manure, feast upon it, tear it to bits (through logical and rational argument and sometimes verbal abuse) and eventually contribute to your manure spouting pretty flowers (i.e. everyone else recognises that you are full of manure and looks elsewhere for wisdom).

  • Grover

    So I guess in your round about way, you are saying that you are a dispenser of manure (BS, rhetoric, buzz words, and sophisms) and we are the gad flies or whatever that are attracted to that manure, feast upon it, tear it to bits (through logical and rational argument and sometimes verbal abuse) and eventually contribute to your manure spouting pretty flowers (i.e. everyone else recognises that you are full of manure and looks elsewhere for wisdom).

  • farhan

    Craig wrote: I cannot grasp your analogy here?

    Dear Craig, the phenomenon of life, whether mineral, biological, or social evolves naturally towards disintegration or entropy; the phenomenon of integration or negative entropy whic converts compost into flowers is "improbable" and for many, including myself, involves intervention from a higher level of existence. In a garden, some organisms such as flies and worms are involved in helping disintegration, preparing compost, and others like butterflies and bees are involved in pollinisation and fostering plant growth. They are all doing “God’s work” but attracted to different jobs. It is the same in society: some are attracting attention to dysfunctions, others are trying to construct. It so happens that on this blog, those attracting attention to dysfunctions are frequently using a scatological vocabulary. And some of these refer to my posts as "sugar coated c..p" I hope you dreamt of butterflies, flowers, fields and perfume and not of compost.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/farhan farhan

    Craig wrote: I cannot grasp your analogy here?

    Dear Craig, the phenomenon of life, whether mineral, biological, or social evolves naturally towards disintegration or entropy; the phenomenon of integration or negative entropy whic converts compost into flowers is "improbable" and for many, including myself, involves intervention from a higher level of existence. In a garden, some organisms such as flies and worms are involved in helping disintegration, preparing compost, and others like butterflies and bees are involved in pollinisation and fostering plant growth. They are all doing “God’s work” but attracted to different jobs. It is the same in society: some are attracting attention to dysfunctions, others are trying to construct. It so happens that on this blog, those attracting attention to dysfunctions are frequently using a scatological vocabulary. And some of these refer to my posts as "sugar coated c..p" I hope you dreamt of butterflies, flowers, fields and perfume and not of compost.

  • farhan

    Grover wrote: So I guess in your round about way, you are saying that you are a dispenser of manure

    No Grover, I am saying that those who use scatological vocabulary are attracted to the same, and that they are irritated by my flowery language

  • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/farhan farhan

    Grover wrote: So I guess in your round about way, you are saying that you are a dispenser of manure

    No Grover, I am saying that those who use scatological vocabulary are attracted to the same, and that they are irritated by my flowery language

  • Grover

    Well, I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder – what is pretty flowers to you, and acceptable in a Baha'i sitting, is manure to everyone else. Must be a real benefit when it comes to sitting on one of those smelly portable toilet that all you see and smell are pretty flowers, where as everyone else sees it for what it is – crap. You'd make a great proctologist!

  • Grover

    Well, I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder – what is pretty flowers to you, and acceptable in a Baha'i sitting, is manure to everyone else. Must be a real benefit when it comes to sitting on one of those smelly portable toilet that all you see and smell are pretty flowers, where as everyone else sees it for what it is – crap. You'd make a great proctologist!

  • farhan

    Baquia, We seem to agree that numerical results do not reflect the essential rise in the spirit of love, enthusiasm and efficiency of the community which characterise growth. I have recently witnessed this growth it the national convention here, you can do so by mingling in the activities wherever you are, whatever your status.

    The community is much more engaged in doing exciting activities rather than producing figures If you wish to have details of the UHJ Ridvan letter, you ask for them at the BWC and not through me. As promised, here are some figures, gleaned from a 35 page report, dating back to Feb 2009 when the 97 clusters in France were: 4 A, 5 B, 67 C and 21 D.

    In 165 BE, 4 clusters had moved from B to A, 5 from C to B. The total number of seekers enrolling in France in 165 EB has been 120, a rise by 3%, as compared to 164 EB. 73% of these were in priority groups. 63% of these new-comers have started the Ruhi sequence.

    In Feb 2009, 552 seekers were participating regularly in core activities, an increase by 24% as compared to 164 EB which was in itself 20% higher than 163 EB. During the period 164-165EB, 51.4% of believers had started the Ruhi sequence, as compared to 49% the previous year, the total number having completed the full Ruhi sequence so as to serve as tutors, rising from 312 to 347, i.e. by 11%. 18% of those having completed the sequence actually started their own study circle, as compared to 16% in 164.

    The number devotional meetings during this period rose by 37% as compared to the rise of 5% the previous year and the participation rose by 26% as compared to 20% in 164EB (30% in priority groups).
    In the 1990’s it was estimated that less than half of the children from Baha’i families in Europe became active in the Faith. We will need some time to determine the results, but we can already say that in France, 61 children’s classes are being run, 41% of children being those of seekers, as compared to 29% the previous year, with a rise of 9% in volunteers formed at running children’s classes through Ruhi book 3 against a 5% rise in 164 EB.

    The 27 pre-youth groups (a 25% rise in 165 EB) welcome 150 participants, (a 41% rise in 165 EB and 37% rise in 164 EB), 63% of participants being seekers There has been a 30% rise in potential animators having acquired skills through Ruhi book 5.
    Hope this is helpful; if you get global results from the BWC, please share.

  • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/farhan farhan

    Baquia, We seem to agree that numerical results do not reflect the essential rise in the spirit of love, enthusiasm and efficiency of the community which characterise growth. I have recently witnessed this growth it the national convention here, you can do so by mingling in the activities wherever you are, whatever your status.

    The community is much more engaged in doing exciting activities rather than producing figures If you wish to have details of the UHJ Ridvan letter, you ask for them at the BWC and not through me. As promised, here are some figures, gleaned from a 35 page report, dating back to Feb 2009 when the 97 clusters in France were: 4 A, 5 B, 67 C and 21 D.

    In 165 BE, 4 clusters had moved from B to A, 5 from C to B. The total number of seekers enrolling in France in 165 EB has been 120, a rise by 3%, as compared to 164 EB. 73% of these were in priority groups. 63% of these new-comers have started the Ruhi sequence.

    In Feb 2009, 552 seekers were participating regularly in core activities, an increase by 24% as compared to 164 EB which was in itself 20% higher than 163 EB. During the period 164-165EB, 51.4% of believers had started the Ruhi sequence, as compared to 49% the previous year, the total number having completed the full Ruhi sequence so as to serve as tutors, rising from 312 to 347, i.e. by 11%. 18% of those having completed the sequence actually started their own study circle, as compared to 16% in 164.

    The number devotional meetings during this period rose by 37% as compared to the rise of 5% the previous year and the participation rose by 26% as compared to 20% in 164EB (30% in priority groups).
    In the 1990’s it was estimated that less than half of the children from Baha’i families in Europe became active in the Faith. We will need some time to determine the results, but we can already say that in France, 61 children’s classes are being run, 41% of children being those of seekers, as compared to 29% the previous year, with a rise of 9% in volunteers formed at running children’s classes through Ruhi book 3 against a 5% rise in 164 EB.

    The 27 pre-youth groups (a 25% rise in 165 EB) welcome 150 participants, (a 41% rise in 165 EB and 37% rise in 164 EB), 63% of participants being seekers There has been a 30% rise in potential animators having acquired skills through Ruhi book 5.
    Hope this is helpful; if you get global results from the BWC, please share.

  • farhan

    Baquia, to continue replies, I have never heard of the “Willow Creek experience” I have provided some statistics, although there is no reason why I should be providing evidence for what should be your personal experience with the institute, any more than I need to produce evidence that pioneering, fasting or prayers are good. Those who don’t like it do something else.

    Baquia : did you know that the same courtesy isn't extended by other Baha'i bloggers?

    Farhan: I agree this is an immature behaviour which will disappear as we grow. BTW I have had one comment removed here a week ago.

    Baquia: I do not doubt your sincerity nor your aspiration to be a good Baha'i.

    Farhan: Thank you for accepting me as sincere; this means you consider me as perhaps over refined, poet, idealist or snob, but not a sophist.

    Baquia: Mui's excavations of ruined business plans led him to conclude that a wise organization vigorously questions its own clever ideas; dissent is encouraged, and skepticism is built in.

    Farhan: I agree with this, otherwise I would not be here. But once again, there is a time, a place, and a manner for expressing diverging ideas.

    Baquia: What does that mean if we don't actually use our minds to engage in critical thinking and ask questions? How degenerate when the mere act of asking questions is reduced to blasphemy!

    Farhan: I agree: a very childish behaviour out of which we need to grow and in which you seem to have outgrown us.

    Baquia: He or she is the authority! You do not question the doctor! You automatically obey.

    Farhan: You remind me of Milgrain’s experiment; this is a daily struggle for me in a very complex profession that resorts to ultra conservatism to face the challenges and is then unable to change, leading to riots I refered to a year ago. The Faith went through this when Shoghi Effendi introduced the AO in 1929, and again the UHJ when the institute was introduced, changing some of the AO structures. You might have read Alvin Toffler’s “Future Shock” where he explains the limits of our adaptability to change.

    Baquia: Getting back to our present discussion, it seems to me that we are two different nurses. You are ready to turn the patient over and administer the 'medicine'.

    Farhan: it took me over a year of painful study before I fully understood the purpose of the institute, of which Ruhi is a tool, and to see how so many out of blind and sincere obedience were making mistakes which have now been overcome with splendid results.

    As to my wish to be a good doctor or a good Baha’i, I am eager to see the results and have outgrown the need for approbation or acceptation form anyone. I am regularly astonished at how often in messages here people feel the need to measure themselves to others, see who is dominating who, instead of seeing ourselves as brothers and sisters helping each other develop under the shadow of the same Father.

    If you have further points, please bring them up one by one and we will discuss them.

  • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/farhan farhan

    Baquia, to continue replies, I have never heard of the “Willow Creek experience” I have provided some statistics, although there is no reason why I should be providing evidence for what should be your personal experience with the institute, any more than I need to produce evidence that pioneering, fasting or prayers are good. Those who don’t like it do something else.

    Baquia : did you know that the same courtesy isn't extended by other Baha'i bloggers?

    Farhan: I agree this is an immature behaviour which will disappear as we grow. BTW I have had one comment removed here a week ago.

    Baquia: I do not doubt your sincerity nor your aspiration to be a good Baha'i.

    Farhan: Thank you for accepting me as sincere; this means you consider me as perhaps over refined, poet, idealist or snob, but not a sophist.

    Baquia: Mui's excavations of ruined business plans led him to conclude that a wise organization vigorously questions its own clever ideas; dissent is encouraged, and skepticism is built in.

    Farhan: I agree with this, otherwise I would not be here. But once again, there is a time, a place, and a manner for expressing diverging ideas.

    Baquia: What does that mean if we don't actually use our minds to engage in critical thinking and ask questions? How degenerate when the mere act of asking questions is reduced to blasphemy!

    Farhan: I agree: a very childish behaviour out of which we need to grow and in which you seem to have outgrown us.

    Baquia: He or she is the authority! You do not question the doctor! You automatically obey.

    Farhan: You remind me of Milgrain’s experiment; this is a daily struggle for me in a very complex profession that resorts to ultra conservatism to face the challenges and is then unable to change, leading to riots I refered to a year ago. The Faith went through this when Shoghi Effendi introduced the AO in 1929, and again the UHJ when the institute was introduced, changing some of the AO structures. You might have read Alvin Toffler’s “Future Shock” where he explains the limits of our adaptability to change.

    Baquia: Getting back to our present discussion, it seems to me that we are two different nurses. You are ready to turn the patient over and administer the 'medicine'.

    Farhan: it took me over a year of painful study before I fully understood the purpose of the institute, of which Ruhi is a tool, and to see how so many out of blind and sincere obedience were making mistakes which have now been overcome with splendid results.

    As to my wish to be a good doctor or a good Baha’i, I am eager to see the results and have outgrown the need for approbation or acceptation form anyone. I am regularly astonished at how often in messages here people feel the need to measure themselves to others, see who is dominating who, instead of seeing ourselves as brothers and sisters helping each other develop under the shadow of the same Father.

    If you have further points, please bring them up one by one and we will discuss them.

  • farhan

    Grover wrote: I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder
    Of course, Grover and expressed in other words:

    “Yea, to the beetle a sweet fragrance seemeth foul, and to the man sick of a rheum a pleasant perfume is as naught.” (7 Valleys p 21)
    And again : “Yea, the abject beetle can never scent the fragrance of holiness, and the bat of darkness can never face the splendour of the sun.”(Iqan p118)
    “…these souls, vile and miserable as the beetle itself, have had no portion of the musk-laden breeze of eternity, and have never entered the Ridvan of heavenly delight. How, therefore, can they impart unto others the imperishable fragrance of holiness?”(Iqan 123)

    But fortunately, this is not a permanent curse and God loves us, His children, and offers us the opportunity to grow spiritually out of an abject situation:

    “Cleanse thou the rheum from out thine head and breathe the breath of God instead.”(Rumi quoted in 7 Valleys p 21)
    “At this hour, so liberal is the outpouring of Its grace that the holy Spirit itself is envious! It hath imparted to the drop the waves of the sea, and endowed the mote with the splendour of the sun. So great are the overflowings of Its bounty that the foulest beetle hath sought the perfume of the musk, and the bat the light of the sun.” (Iqan p 60)

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/farhan farhan

    Grover wrote: I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder
    Of course, Grover and expressed in other words:

    “Yea, to the beetle a sweet fragrance seemeth foul, and to the man sick of a rheum a pleasant perfume is as naught.” (7 Valleys p 21)
    And again : “Yea, the abject beetle can never scent the fragrance of holiness, and the bat of darkness can never face the splendour of the sun.”(Iqan p118)
    “…these souls, vile and miserable as the beetle itself, have had no portion of the musk-laden breeze of eternity, and have never entered the Ridvan of heavenly delight. How, therefore, can they impart unto others the imperishable fragrance of holiness?”(Iqan 123)

    But fortunately, this is not a permanent curse and God loves us, His children, and offers us the opportunity to grow spiritually out of an abject situation:

    “Cleanse thou the rheum from out thine head and breathe the breath of God instead.”(Rumi quoted in 7 Valleys p 21)
    “At this hour, so liberal is the outpouring of Its grace that the holy Spirit itself is envious! It hath imparted to the drop the waves of the sea, and endowed the mote with the splendour of the sun. So great are the overflowings of Its bounty that the foulest beetle hath sought the perfume of the musk, and the bat the light of the sun.” (Iqan p 60)

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    Farhan,
    The fact that you have never heard of Willow Creek proves that you do not read this blog and are not here to engage in a dialogue but to advocate for your own agenda unilaterally. It is beyond rude and akin to going to a dinner party but then taking over the host’s kitchen to make your own food. You are welcome here to comment but if you’d like to put forward your own ideas, irrespective of what I write, then start your own blog. There are many free options: blogger, wordpress.com, livejournal, etc.
    re sincerity, not at all. The two are not mutually exclusive – just as a hypochondriac is sincere in believing they are going to die (and yet wrong).
    re your deleted comment: in case it had escaped your attention, you comment a lot here. A lot. At times this requires that I aggregate your comments into one (from a number of fragmented comments that has gone as high as 5 within an hour’s span). The erased comment was one which was moved and aggregated to another of your comments. I even wrote you an email explaining this and assuring you that your comments were not erased but grouped. Needless to say, I do not appreciate the insinuation in the least.
    finally, it isn’t so much scatological vs. flowery language but having a sense of humor while directly addressing an issue vs. sophistry and obfuscation.

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    Farhan,
    The fact that you have never heard of Willow Creek proves that you do not read this blog and are not here to engage in a dialogue but to advocate for your own agenda unilaterally. It is beyond rude and akin to going to a dinner party but then taking over the host’s kitchen to make your own food. You are welcome here to comment but if you’d like to put forward your own ideas, irrespective of what I write, then start your own blog. There are many free options: blogger, wordpress.com, livejournal, etc.
    re sincerity, not at all. The two are not mutually exclusive – just as a hypochondriac is sincere in believing they are going to die (and yet wrong).
    re your deleted comment: in case it had escaped your attention, you comment a lot here. A lot. At times this requires that I aggregate your comments into one (from a number of fragmented comments that has gone as high as 5 within an hour’s span). The erased comment was one which was moved and aggregated to another of your comments. I even wrote you an email explaining this and assuring you that your comments were not erased but grouped. Needless to say, I do not appreciate the insinuation in the least.
    finally, it isn’t so much scatological vs. flowery language but having a sense of humor while directly addressing an issue vs. sophistry and obfuscation.

  • pey

    I just got a bit of information that I never knew. It sheds light on how the Bahai administration hypes up statistics. Did you all know, that at least in the US, whenever a Bahai travels abroad "for any reason", if the National knows about it, then that individual is counted as a travel teacher? Amazing! My friend basically explained that they justifiy this because they say that a Bahai is always a teacher wether he opens his mouth to actually teach or not. So wether he's going to a country just to vacation on a beach or do some business transactions- we'll still count him as a teacher. So all those years I'd open up the American Bahai and see "wow, so many 'teachers' going out into the world" was really hyped up stats. Makes me wonder how much of Farhan's stats are calculated in the same manner.

  • pey

    I just got a bit of information that I never knew. It sheds light on how the Bahai administration hypes up statistics. Did you all know, that at least in the US, whenever a Bahai travels abroad "for any reason", if the National knows about it, then that individual is counted as a travel teacher? Amazing! My friend basically explained that they justifiy this because they say that a Bahai is always a teacher wether he opens his mouth to actually teach or not. So wether he's going to a country just to vacation on a beach or do some business transactions- we'll still count him as a teacher. So all those years I'd open up the American Bahai and see "wow, so many 'teachers' going out into the world" was really hyped up stats. Makes me wonder how much of Farhan's stats are calculated in the same manner.

  • Craig Parke

    The one thing about Ruhi that was spot on was the part about lying. (But I was raised a Lutheran and I must say the Lutheran Catechism based upon the Ten Commandments was actually much better in scope.) Of course, as per form in the Ruhi Books, the text was blatantly grounded in someone's personal opinion twist extrapolation about lying several times removed from the actual Scripture of the Faith. But the thought association was basically true to anyone who has lived very long on this planet. Especially in the 20th Century. The problem with liars is that they start to believe their lies. Once that starts total self delusion is the end game as everything goes into free fall. Why doesn't the AO practice what it preaches? The stats of the Faith are lies. There is no other way to say it. They just do not hold up to true scrutiny and analysis. Why don't we just start there with trying to practice what we preach?

    "Lies and the lying liars who tell them". Always a good show on Jerry Springer or Oprah.

    Telling the truth begins at home. Otherwise it all ends in a web of mind bending self delusion decade after decade and then century after century.

    The answer is fierce term limits at every level in the AO. You tell lies and you are voted out of office on your head.

  • Craig Parke

    The one thing about Ruhi that was spot on was the part about lying. (But I was raised a Lutheran and I must say the Lutheran Catechism based upon the Ten Commandments was actually much better in scope.) Of course, as per form in the Ruhi Books, the text was blatantly grounded in someone's personal opinion twist extrapolation about lying several times removed from the actual Scripture of the Faith. But the thought association was basically true to anyone who has lived very long on this planet. Especially in the 20th Century. The problem with liars is that they start to believe their lies. Once that starts total self delusion is the end game as everything goes into free fall. Why doesn't the AO practice what it preaches? The stats of the Faith are lies. There is no other way to say it. They just do not hold up to true scrutiny and analysis. Why don't we just start there with trying to practice what we preach?

    "Lies and the lying liars who tell them". Always a good show on Jerry Springer or Oprah.

    Telling the truth begins at home. Otherwise it all ends in a web of mind bending self delusion decade after decade and then century after century.

    The answer is fierce term limits at every level in the AO. You tell lies and you are voted out of office on your head.

  • pey

    Another thing about Ruhi. Has anyone ever seen Book 8 (covenant). I've heard it hasn't been published yet in English. I'm really curious how they (whosever interpretation) lay it out in the book to indoctrinate. Will it be a thorough explanation or a glossing over of Abdul-Baha's Will and Testament and the many uncomfortable quotes from Shoghi Effendi about the living Guardian as head of the UHJ? My gut instinct says the latter.

  • pey

    Another thing about Ruhi. Has anyone ever seen Book 8 (covenant). I've heard it hasn't been published yet in English. I'm really curious how they (whosever interpretation) lay it out in the book to indoctrinate. Will it be a thorough explanation or a glossing over of Abdul-Baha's Will and Testament and the many uncomfortable quotes from Shoghi Effendi about the living Guardian as head of the UHJ? My gut instinct says the latter.

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    pey, book 8 was supposed to be completed in 2008 but as with all such projects it is running late. I have a work in progress copy of the translation and it seems to gloss over the more bumpy historical facts and present the Covenant in more or less the same sanitized light as you suggest.

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    pey, book 8 was supposed to be completed in 2008 but as with all such projects it is running late. I have a work in progress copy of the translation and it seems to gloss over the more bumpy historical facts and present the Covenant in more or less the same sanitized light as you suggest.

  • owen

    well, to be fair baquia, I read the 'show me the money' post 2 or 3 times with great interest when you first posted it and i didn't remember what willow creek was until i followed the link

  • owen

    well, to be fair baquia, I read the 'show me the money' post 2 or 3 times with great interest when you first posted it and i didn't remember what willow creek was until i followed the link

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    owen, If someone comments without referencing or addressing what is on the blog once? – fine. Twice? ok. Three times? still alright. But continuously? Then it is a pattern of behavior which gives away their true goal.

  • http://www.bahairants.com Baquia

    owen, If someone comments without referencing or addressing what is on the blog once? – fine. Twice? ok. Three times? still alright. But continuously? Then it is a pattern of behavior which gives away their true goal.

  • farhan

    Baquia wrote: Please note that I’m being extremely gentle in this regard because had there been such success, all Baha’is would have heard about it in great detail. … if with all these advantages, Ruhi can not provide significant results that prove its efficacy beyond a doubt in its native country of Colombia… then by what rationale should we expect it to suddenly start to succeed now? … and especially in other, much more hostile cultures? …Trees that yield no fruit have been and will ever be for the fire.

    Baquia, I have no agenda and neither time, nor any of your competence and artistic talent for setting up a blog. After going back to the Willow Creek link, I noticed that I had been there three weeks ago without remembering the name and any connexion with the comments above that concluded your usual diatribe against Ruhi and your scepticism on the contents of the UHJ letter.

    You haughtily attribute this lack of attention to insincerity. I already explained that under Internet Explorer, my wide PC screen at work often freezes and when it works, Intense debate asks me to break down my comments to shorter ones. My 13” laptop with Firefox, works better, although I have trouble finding the initial comment, and reading is more tedious and I will be getting new glasses next week.

    Once again, if you want to “see the money” you should participate in the activities and notice the change in attitude and behaviour. What I can say for my own self is that after the learning experiences of mass entry in the 1970s where I understood that the immaturity of the Baha’i community did not allow us to welcome large groups, I decided to resort to indirect teaching, including with my own children. I am now much more at ease for welcoming people into all the activities made available through the institute process. This I can attest, but not show in cash. You can show leaves and fruits of a tree, but not its roots: a matter of faith and belief.

  • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/farhan farhan

    Baquia wrote: Please note that I’m being extremely gentle in this regard because had there been such success, all Baha’is would have heard about it in great detail. … if with all these advantages, Ruhi can not provide significant results that prove its efficacy beyond a doubt in its native country of Colombia… then by what rationale should we expect it to suddenly start to succeed now? … and especially in other, much more hostile cultures? …Trees that yield no fruit have been and will ever be for the fire.

    Baquia, I have no agenda and neither time, nor any of your competence and artistic talent for setting up a blog. After going back to the Willow Creek link, I noticed that I had been there three weeks ago without remembering the name and any connexion with the comments above that concluded your usual diatribe against Ruhi and your scepticism on the contents of the UHJ letter.

    You haughtily attribute this lack of attention to insincerity. I already explained that under Internet Explorer, my wide PC screen at work often freezes and when it works, Intense debate asks me to break down my comments to shorter ones. My 13” laptop with Firefox, works better, although I have trouble finding the initial comment, and reading is more tedious and I will be getting new glasses next week.

    Once again, if you want to “see the money” you should participate in the activities and notice the change in attitude and behaviour. What I can say for my own self is that after the learning experiences of mass entry in the 1970s where I understood that the immaturity of the Baha’i community did not allow us to welcome large groups, I decided to resort to indirect teaching, including with my own children. I am now much more at ease for welcoming people into all the activities made available through the institute process. This I can attest, but not show in cash. You can show leaves and fruits of a tree, but not its roots: a matter of faith and belief.

  • http://spiritualgleanings.blogspot.com Nikhil

    A few thoughts… (though i didn't go thru all the comments so maybe these points have already been made):

    1. I wish the word teaching hadn't been used – unfortunately in society it has such a negative, hierarchical connotation, that it creates a certain barrier. If one goes through the writings, I think it becomes clear that the spirit of "teaching" is really "sharing" – and this i think differentiates it from proselytization. Proselytizing has a clear purpose – to convert. Sharing, on the other hand, is just openly, directly, talking about things that mean a lot to you with others. There is no expectation of change in the other person – if they show interest, you continue, if not, you leave it at that. I believe that's the spirit in which teaching is truly meant to be done in the faith. Of course, Baha'is are imperfect individuals (just like everyone else), and few probably live up to this standard.

    2. Teaching is something that is not meant to be just from a Baha'i to a non-Baha'i, but between Bahai's too – in fact, the foremost attitude in a society where everyone is "teaching" everyone else is a culture of learning. And so we should all be attempting to learn from each other. Of course, when we "teach" someone, it is not to be from a standpoint of superiority, but rather one of humility, and of sharing sincerely trying to, together, come to a better understanding of truth.

    3. This view of teaching is closely related to the Baha'i view of education in general as not the filling of empty vessels, but rather the mining of gems that already exist within each individual. This clearly puts the "teacher" in a role of service rather than one of superiority.

    At this point in history, when in most cultures people are still uncomfortable talking about spirituality openly, I think even this notion of sharing one's beliefs openly can come across as being too pushy. However I think that the Baha'i vision really is for a world where people on the whole are more spiritual, more keen to learn from each other, and more open in sharing their spiritual beliefs with others. In such a milieu, we would all be "teaching" each other, as well as learning from each other.

    All this being said, its important to reiterate that Baha'is are of course imperfect like everyone else – so its important not to take the actions of Baha'i people as a standard for the teachings. As Abdu'l Baha once said, the biggest test for Baha'is will always be other Baha'is :)

  • http://spiritualgleanings.blogspot.com Nikhil

    A few thoughts… (though i didn't go thru all the comments so maybe these points have already been made):

    1. I wish the word teaching hadn't been used – unfortunately in society it has such a negative, hierarchical connotation, that it creates a certain barrier. If one goes through the writings, I think it becomes clear that the spirit of "teaching" is really "sharing" – and this i think differentiates it from proselytization. Proselytizing has a clear purpose – to convert. Sharing, on the other hand, is just openly, directly, talking about things that mean a lot to you with others. There is no expectation of change in the other person – if they show interest, you continue, if not, you leave it at that. I believe that's the spirit in which teaching is truly meant to be done in the faith. Of course, Baha'is are imperfect individuals (just like everyone else), and few probably live up to this standard.

    2. Teaching is something that is not meant to be just from a Baha'i to a non-Baha'i, but between Bahai's too – in fact, the foremost attitude in a society where everyone is "teaching" everyone else is a culture of learning. And so we should all be attempting to learn from each other. Of course, when we "teach" someone, it is not to be from a standpoint of superiority, but rather one of humility, and of sharing sincerely trying to, together, come to a better understanding of truth.

    3. This view of teaching is closely related to the Baha'i view of education in general as not the filling of empty vessels, but rather the mining of gems that already exist within each individual. This clearly puts the "teacher" in a role of service rather than one of superiority.

    At this point in history, when in most cultures people are still uncomfortable talking about spirituality openly, I think even this notion of sharing one's beliefs openly can come across as being too pushy. However I think that the Baha'i vision really is for a world where people on the whole are more spiritual, more keen to learn from each other, and more open in sharing their spiritual beliefs with others. In such a milieu, we would all be "teaching" each other, as well as learning from each other.

    All this being said, its important to reiterate that Baha'is are of course imperfect like everyone else – so its important not to take the actions of Baha'i people as a standard for the teachings. As Abdu'l Baha once said, the biggest test for Baha'is will always be other Baha'is :)

  • Craig Parke

    Nikhil,

    Thank you for your post. All very good points and all completely worthy insights. But what to are saying here is bottom up OLDTHINK in the BAO. In the current top down NEWTHINK BAO what you are saying here is treason. Keep it up and you will get a file opened on you in Haifa and put under 24/7/365/1000 surveillance for thought crimes. Be very careful about what you say.

  • Craig Parke

    Nikhil,

    Thank you for your post. All very good points and all completely worthy insights. But what to are saying here is bottom up OLDTHINK in the BAO. In the current top down NEWTHINK BAO what you are saying here is treason. Keep it up and you will get a file opened on you in Haifa and put under 24/7/365/1000 surveillance for thought crimes. Be very careful about what you say.

  • farhan

    Thanks, Nikhil, I entirely agree with your vision of teaching, which is permeated throughout the Institute Process, even though some years back, some inexperienced new-comers in the field of service did adopt attitudes of superiority that have been entirely quenched by now.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/farhan farhan

    Thanks, Nikhil, I entirely agree with your vision of teaching, which is permeated throughout the Institute Process, even though some years back, some inexperienced new-comers in the field of service did adopt attitudes of superiority that have been entirely quenched by now.

  • teacherinchina

    I am teaching Accounting in China, no proselytizing.Nice blog though.

  • teacherinchina

    I am teaching Accounting in China, no proselytizing.Nice blog though.

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