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	<title>Comments on: Teaching vs. Proselytizing: UHJ Letter</title>
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	<link>http://bahairants.com/teaching-vs-proselytizing-uhj-letter-614.html</link>
	<description>A Baha'i blog.</description>
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		<title>By: Proselytizing in Other Cultures - Gee, Why Do I Feel So Persecuted</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/teaching-vs-proselytizing-uhj-letter-614.html/comment-page-2#comment-68792</link>
		<dc:creator>Proselytizing in Other Cultures - Gee, Why Do I Feel So Persecuted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bahairants.com/teaching-vs-proselytizing-uhj-letter-614.html#comment-68792</guid>
		<description>[...] the sensibilities of people, you should learn the lesson of your night in jail.Related blog postsTeaching vs. Proselytizing: UHJ Letter &#124; Baha&#039;i RantsThe American Spectator : Peace for LandHate in America, Part 1: A History of Hate &#124; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the sensibilities of people, you should learn the lesson of your night in jail.Related blog postsTeaching vs. Proselytizing: UHJ Letter | Baha&#39;i RantsThe American Spectator : Peace for LandHate in America, Part 1: A History of Hate | [...]</p>
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		<title>By: teacherinchina</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/teaching-vs-proselytizing-uhj-letter-614.html/comment-page-2#comment-68680</link>
		<dc:creator>teacherinchina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 04:52:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bahairants.com/teaching-vs-proselytizing-uhj-letter-614.html#comment-68680</guid>
		<description>I am teaching Accounting in China, no proselytizing.Nice blog though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am teaching Accounting in China, no proselytizing.Nice blog though.</p>
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		<title>By: teacherinchina</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/teaching-vs-proselytizing-uhj-letter-614.html/comment-page-2#comment-68503</link>
		<dc:creator>teacherinchina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 00:52:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I am teaching Accounting in China, no proselytizing.Nice blog though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am teaching Accounting in China, no proselytizing.Nice blog though.</p>
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		<title>By: farhan</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/teaching-vs-proselytizing-uhj-letter-614.html/comment-page-2#comment-66655</link>
		<dc:creator>farhan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 09:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks, Nikhil, I entirely agree with your vision of teaching, which is permeated throughout the Institute Process, even though some years back, some inexperienced new-comers in the field of service did adopt attitudes of superiority that have been entirely quenched by now. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Nikhil, I entirely agree with your vision of teaching, which is permeated throughout the Institute Process, even though some years back, some inexperienced new-comers in the field of service did adopt attitudes of superiority that have been entirely quenched by now.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig Parke</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/teaching-vs-proselytizing-uhj-letter-614.html/comment-page-2#comment-66644</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig Parke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 06:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bahairants.com/teaching-vs-proselytizing-uhj-letter-614.html#comment-66644</guid>
		<description>Nikhil, 
 
Thank you for your post. All very good points and all completely worthy insights. But what to are saying here is bottom up OLDTHINK in the BAO.  In the current top down NEWTHINK BAO what you are saying here is treason. Keep it up and you will get a file opened on you in Haifa and put under 24/7/365/1000 surveillance for thought crimes. Be very careful about what you say. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nikhil, </p>
<p>Thank you for your post. All very good points and all completely worthy insights. But what to are saying here is bottom up OLDTHINK in the BAO.  In the current top down NEWTHINK BAO what you are saying here is treason. Keep it up and you will get a file opened on you in Haifa and put under 24/7/365/1000 surveillance for thought crimes. Be very careful about what you say.</p>
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		<title>By: Nikhil</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/teaching-vs-proselytizing-uhj-letter-614.html/comment-page-2#comment-66615</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikhil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 22:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bahairants.com/teaching-vs-proselytizing-uhj-letter-614.html#comment-66615</guid>
		<description>A few thoughts... (though i didn&#039;t go thru all the comments so maybe these points have already been made): 
 
1. I wish the word teaching hadn&#039;t been used - unfortunately in society it has such a negative, hierarchical connotation, that it creates a certain barrier. If one goes through the writings, I think it becomes clear that the spirit of &quot;teaching&quot; is really &quot;sharing&quot; - and this i think differentiates it from proselytization. Proselytizing has a clear purpose - to convert. Sharing, on the other hand, is just openly, directly, talking about things that mean a lot to you with others. There is no expectation of change in the other person - if they show interest, you continue, if not, you leave it at that. I believe that&#039;s the spirit in which teaching is truly meant to be done in the faith. Of course, Baha&#039;is are imperfect individuals (just like everyone else), and few probably live up to this standard. 
 
2. Teaching is something that is not meant to be just from a Baha&#039;i to a non-Baha&#039;i, but between Bahai&#039;s too - in fact, the foremost attitude in a society where everyone is &quot;teaching&quot; everyone else is a culture of learning. And so we should all be attempting to learn from each other. Of course, when we &quot;teach&quot; someone, it is not to be from a standpoint of superiority, but rather one of humility, and of sharing sincerely trying to, together, come to a better understanding of truth.  
 
3. This view of teaching is closely related to the Baha&#039;i view of education in general as not the filling of empty vessels, but rather the mining of gems that already exist within each individual. This clearly puts the &quot;teacher&quot; in a role of service rather than one of superiority.  
 
At this point in history, when in most cultures people are still uncomfortable talking about spirituality openly, I think even this notion of sharing one&#039;s beliefs openly can come across as being too pushy. However I think that the Baha&#039;i vision really is for a world where people on the whole are more spiritual, more keen to learn from each other, and more open in sharing their spiritual beliefs with others. In such a milieu, we would all be &quot;teaching&quot; each other, as well as learning from each other.  
 
All this being said, its important to reiterate that Baha&#039;is are of course imperfect like everyone else - so its important not to take the actions of Baha&#039;i people as a standard for the teachings. As Abdu&#039;l Baha once said, the biggest test for Baha&#039;is will always be other Baha&#039;is :) </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few thoughts&#8230; (though i didn&#039;t go thru all the comments so maybe these points have already been made): </p>
<p>1. I wish the word teaching hadn&#039;t been used &#8211; unfortunately in society it has such a negative, hierarchical connotation, that it creates a certain barrier. If one goes through the writings, I think it becomes clear that the spirit of &quot;teaching&quot; is really &quot;sharing&quot; &#8211; and this i think differentiates it from proselytization. Proselytizing has a clear purpose &#8211; to convert. Sharing, on the other hand, is just openly, directly, talking about things that mean a lot to you with others. There is no expectation of change in the other person &#8211; if they show interest, you continue, if not, you leave it at that. I believe that&#039;s the spirit in which teaching is truly meant to be done in the faith. Of course, Baha&#039;is are imperfect individuals (just like everyone else), and few probably live up to this standard. </p>
<p>2. Teaching is something that is not meant to be just from a Baha&#039;i to a non-Baha&#039;i, but between Bahai&#039;s too &#8211; in fact, the foremost attitude in a society where everyone is &quot;teaching&quot; everyone else is a culture of learning. And so we should all be attempting to learn from each other. Of course, when we &quot;teach&quot; someone, it is not to be from a standpoint of superiority, but rather one of humility, and of sharing sincerely trying to, together, come to a better understanding of truth.  </p>
<p>3. This view of teaching is closely related to the Baha&#039;i view of education in general as not the filling of empty vessels, but rather the mining of gems that already exist within each individual. This clearly puts the &quot;teacher&quot; in a role of service rather than one of superiority.  </p>
<p>At this point in history, when in most cultures people are still uncomfortable talking about spirituality openly, I think even this notion of sharing one&#039;s beliefs openly can come across as being too pushy. However I think that the Baha&#039;i vision really is for a world where people on the whole are more spiritual, more keen to learn from each other, and more open in sharing their spiritual beliefs with others. In such a milieu, we would all be &quot;teaching&quot; each other, as well as learning from each other.  </p>
<p>All this being said, its important to reiterate that Baha&#039;is are of course imperfect like everyone else &#8211; so its important not to take the actions of Baha&#039;i people as a standard for the teachings. As Abdu&#039;l Baha once said, the biggest test for Baha&#039;is will always be other Baha&#039;is <img src='http://bahairants.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: farhan</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/teaching-vs-proselytizing-uhj-letter-614.html/comment-page-2#comment-65915</link>
		<dc:creator>farhan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 10:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bahairants.com/teaching-vs-proselytizing-uhj-letter-614.html#comment-65915</guid>
		<description>Baquia wrote: Please note that I&#8217;m being extremely gentle in this regard because had there been such success, all Baha&#8217;is would have heard about it in great detail. &#8230; if with all these advantages, Ruhi can not provide significant results that prove its efficacy beyond a doubt in its native country of Colombia&#8230; then by what rationale should we expect it to suddenly start to succeed now? &#8230; and especially in other, much more hostile cultures? &#8230;Trees that yield no fruit have been and will ever be for the fire.   
   
Baquia, I have no agenda and neither time, nor any of your competence and artistic talent for setting up a blog. After going back to the Willow Creek link, I noticed that I had been there three weeks ago without remembering the name and any connexion with the comments above that concluded your usual diatribe against Ruhi and your scepticism on the contents of the UHJ letter.   
   
You haughtily attribute this lack of attention to insincerity. I already explained that under Internet Explorer, my wide PC screen at work often freezes and when it works, Intense debate asks me to break down my comments to shorter ones. My 13&#8221; laptop with Firefox, works better, although I have trouble finding the initial comment, and reading is more tedious and I will be getting new glasses next week.   
   
Once again, if you want to &#8220;see the money&#8221; you should participate in the activities and notice the change in attitude and behaviour. What I can say for my own self is that after the learning experiences of mass entry in the 1970s where I understood that the immaturity of the Baha&#8217;i community did not allow us to welcome large groups, I decided to resort to indirect teaching, including with my own children. I am now much more at ease for welcoming people into all the activities made available through the institute process. This I can attest, but not show in cash. You can show leaves and fruits of a tree, but not its roots: a matter of faith and belief. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Baquia wrote: Please note that I&rsquo;m being extremely gentle in this regard because had there been such success, all Baha&rsquo;is would have heard about it in great detail. &hellip; if with all these advantages, Ruhi can not provide significant results that prove its efficacy beyond a doubt in its native country of Colombia&hellip; then by what rationale should we expect it to suddenly start to succeed now? &hellip; and especially in other, much more hostile cultures? &hellip;Trees that yield no fruit have been and will ever be for the fire.   </p>
<p>Baquia, I have no agenda and neither time, nor any of your competence and artistic talent for setting up a blog. After going back to the Willow Creek link, I noticed that I had been there three weeks ago without remembering the name and any connexion with the comments above that concluded your usual diatribe against Ruhi and your scepticism on the contents of the UHJ letter.   </p>
<p>You haughtily attribute this lack of attention to insincerity. I already explained that under Internet Explorer, my wide PC screen at work often freezes and when it works, Intense debate asks me to break down my comments to shorter ones. My 13&rdquo; laptop with Firefox, works better, although I have trouble finding the initial comment, and reading is more tedious and I will be getting new glasses next week.   </p>
<p>Once again, if you want to &ldquo;see the money&rdquo; you should participate in the activities and notice the change in attitude and behaviour. What I can say for my own self is that after the learning experiences of mass entry in the 1970s where I understood that the immaturity of the Baha&rsquo;i community did not allow us to welcome large groups, I decided to resort to indirect teaching, including with my own children. I am now much more at ease for welcoming people into all the activities made available through the institute process. This I can attest, but not show in cash. You can show leaves and fruits of a tree, but not its roots: a matter of faith and belief.</p>
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		<title>By: Baquia</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/teaching-vs-proselytizing-uhj-letter-614.html/comment-page-2#comment-65832</link>
		<dc:creator>Baquia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 13:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bahairants.com/teaching-vs-proselytizing-uhj-letter-614.html#comment-65832</guid>
		<description>owen, If someone comments without referencing or addressing what is on the blog once? - fine. Twice? ok. Three times? still alright. But continuously? Then it is a pattern of behavior which gives away their true goal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>owen, If someone comments without referencing or addressing what is on the blog once? &#8211; fine. Twice? ok. Three times? still alright. But continuously? Then it is a pattern of behavior which gives away their true goal.</p>
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		<title>By: owen</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/teaching-vs-proselytizing-uhj-letter-614.html/comment-page-2#comment-65831</link>
		<dc:creator>owen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 13:27:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bahairants.com/teaching-vs-proselytizing-uhj-letter-614.html#comment-65831</guid>
		<description>well, to be fair baquia, I read the &#039;show me the money&#039; post 2 or 3 times with great interest when you first posted it and i didn&#039;t remember what willow creek was until i followed the link </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well, to be fair baquia, I read the &#039;show me the money&#039; post 2 or 3 times with great interest when you first posted it and i didn&#039;t remember what willow creek was until i followed the link</p>
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