Folks this is a Prayer Request…

We are down to only four possible dates for Day of Decision, the day the CA Supreme Court will rule on the validity of Prop 8:

Thursday, May 21
Tuesday, May 26
Thursday, May 28
Monday, June 1

see: http://www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=8804346…

and

http://dayofdecision.wetpaint.com/

Just a warning – friends – the NSA just removed my rights for my marriage in August that I mentioned either here or on facebook… be warned all of you who post honestly and openly… you are being watched and subject to being sanctioned…

any thoughts?

DCO, sorry to hear that. Yes, believe it or not people read this blog. My logs indicate quite a few visits from Haifa, Wilmette and other interesting places. What reason did the NSA cite for the removal of your rights?

i'm interested in DCO 's story but I can't find it – tried the 'latest activity' function to no avail

I can't find it either, I hunted through all the posts, expanded all the threads.

can't seem to find myself either…

Here's what is missing…

"Just a warning – friends – the NSA just removed my rights for my
marriage in August that I mentioned either here or on facebook… be
warned all of you who post honestly and openly… you are being watched
and subject to being sanctioned…

and now i can't find wherever you re-posted it! is there something sinister going on?

I swear. Don't these 9 people have anything better to do? Oh I don't know, like maybe opening up the home for the elderly that they closed down?! Maybe helping the poor and sick in nearby Chicago, instead of being in cloistered meetings in opulent Wilmette where they judge who is and who is not worthy of being a fully functioning Bahai. Whatever happened to the Abdul-Baha's vision for the Mashriq- orphanage, hospital, charity?! Oh now, let's just keep pushing loyal believers out of the Faith… that's how they spend time and money.

It is complete dysfunctional loveless mental illness in "organized" religion. The same old, same old. It all devolves into witch hunts and burning people at the stake. Continuous daily inquisitions into orthodoxy litmus tests and searching out thought crimes. Many knowledgeable people had hoped for so much more this time out. Sigh.

But I believe it just may be the work of the Divine to enable the rest of the entire world to freely channel the power of the World Age unencumbered by the burden of self-appointed projected "morals police" and "thought crimes" policing. Both roles completely drain both collective and individual energy and lead to barren spiritual exhaustion. Who wants to be in anything that culturally and spiritually barren? The blocking forces in the Faith are incredible. SE impaired it even more, perhaps fatally, by totally failing in his duty to appoint a living Guardian in his lifetime as he was required to do by the W&T of Abdu'l-Baha. In a situation like this what is a religious fanatic to do? There is no guidance from a living Guardian to ask the UHJ to reconsider any decision that is manifestly fatally deranged . There are no checks and balances so the Faith will always head for the nearest cliff generation after generation.

The only card left to the lifetime incumbent clique of psychologically brain chemistry addicted fanatical rulers who have gamed the electoral processes of sheep is trying to create a door-to-door socioeconomic marketing driven planetary Vista program to recruit the absolutely desperate in life. The only problem is that the BAO cannot deliver on any of it. Such groupthink conversions are not connected to anything directly spiritual with searching the Writings for personal meaning. People are merely connected to the "Institute Process" as their New God. The BAO has never been able to deliver on anything as advertised generation after generation. Everything has been completely run into the ground over and over since 1912 in an orgy of top down clueless dysfunctional brain chemistry. . Anna's Presentation is new to the game of this kind of "conversion" marketing. Now we have hit bottom. The top down system ITSELF is the new God. The JW's own the franchise on the brain chemistry for that brand of "organized" religion. Do the Mormon's still use their felt boards? I heard even they abandoned that kind of captive bullying years ago?

There is going to be great difficulty retaining these kinds of converts. I do not see them lasting more than a year in the MLM Vista program. For a religion to thrive it has to be engaged in an individual multi-dimensional spiritual dynamic in society. The Ruhi Full sequence of Courses and Core activities are too Johnny-One-Note. they are too isolated in mindset.

Meanwhile, the whole rest of the world is moving on writing books, creating films, and engaging in political discourse and social action brought by the Maid of Heaven – the Spirit of the World Age – while the Baha'i thought police groupthink consumes it's own tail in an ever advancing manner. The US NSA 2007 Convention Report was the last honest discussion. It was turned away. There won't be any more attempts at organizational reason in the lifetime of anyone here.

So it goes.

Hey Owen, don't sort the posts – just click on 5 down the bottom of the first page and go down to the bottom

possibly shrewd move by israelis but, israel's "human rights" records itself is appalling, why would european gay rights groups want to get sucked into the slimy politics on both sides of the of israel-vs-iran issue, the related corruption involved with the military-industrial complexes in various countries, etc.?

It seems the administrative bodies of our Faith are just like this… bigots, homophobes and a bit drunk on power…
————-
While of course Daniel still trying to convince the world that they are not any of those things; that the Bahai community doesn't discriminate against the GLBT community. It's a very Iranian thing (I shoudl know)- keep face to the world, while you continue on your witch hunt.

(XL-ex-bahai, 30 years….)

DCO’s “real” crime is being a social activist, a person that cares about other people, and that is comitted to a life devoted to social change and social justice. Such people, when they can’t be assimilated into the BAO “Borg”, are expected to hide quietly in a corner, cowering from the bahai thought police.

bahai administration has devolved into a system of exploitation/dehumanization. and it is paradigm regressive, backward, and attempts to impose a spiritual, intellectual and collective “slave” mentality based on islamic “submission”.

like all dysfunctional organizations, it is in a frenzied state of constant bureuacratic reinvention, as opposed to profound, unvarnished self-examination and learning. it is studiously indifferent (if not hostile) to outside influences that would encourage honest examination of problems – including a lot of bad metaphysics that shold be discarded ASAP in order for the religion to have a sliver of a change to stay current with the leading edge of social evolution.

the bahai writings themselves explain that bahai administration can “go bad”, and that when such happens, “the assembly” will be “brought to naught” (by God).

for “some reason” that inconvenient truth probably got left out of Ruhi.

bahai s supposed to be about an “ever advancing (world) civilization”, but has become a ever regressing tribal/in-group” scam.

adios muchachitos!

Muchas gracias Fubar…

Now that I am freer to share my thoughts I want to share something funny. I had a rather hilarious dream last night… my HUSBAND loves to watch the game show network and it was on when I went to bed… to read before I dosed off. My HUSBAND often stays up being interested in game shows for some gawd forsaken reason, but I digress… at any rate, here is the dream… I was standing in front of a group (didn’t count, but I suspect there were nine) faceless people in black robes. One of them raising a spectral finger, pointed to me and stated that “gay marriage will never be acceptable in the Bahá’í Faith, therefore YOU are the weakest link… good bye!”

It seems the administrative bodies of our Faith are just like this… bigots, homophobes and a bit drunk on power… and if you do not meet “our” standards … goodbye! They need to maintain a sense of we (the saved, clean, moral) vs them (the unsaved, unclean, immoral). Gays are the new “blacks” in that now it is acceptable to say anything negative re: GLBT’s, including by the leadership of the Bahá’í Faith. In fact it could be very helpful to the Faith, if they increased the fear factor – insert horrifying images of Gay men and lesbians embracing and kissing here – falling values in the world, etc… in rereading the letter sent to me, really shouts this to me…

Thanks friends for the love an d support here… and to those who feel compelled to police us, to report us, to turn us in, may God forgive you, right now I just can’t find it in my heart to do so…

DO NOT GO GENTLE INTO THAT GOOD NIGHT

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
–Dylan Thomas

Baquia,

My understanding is that the USNSA said DCO did the following things wrong:

1) got married to a gay partner, and
2) talked about it openly on the internet.

The correspondence from the USNSA is posted on the internet. Feel free to send me a private email if you do not yet have the URL.

fubar, afaik that's correct, however that may not be the whole story. I'll respect Daniel's privacy and allow him to elaborate if he so wishes.

That's a very balanced view Amado, but unfortunately it means we just wait while the Bahai Faith continues to remain backward (at least in Western societies). Gay couples will continue to get married adn raise beautiful kids while the Bahai authorities continue to group them with the pedophiles that Bahaullah spoke of. But the bottom line is that there is NO law against homosexuality. Show me? I don't want letters written by secretaries. I don't even want a letter written by Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer- those are NOT laws. Bahaullah did not specifically speak about gay marriage anywhere in His Writings. Therefore it is something outside the Book which the UHJ can one day legislate on. They should step up and just say we have made a law against gay unions. Then everyone can go on their merry way. But they haven't to my knowledge. All they do is get more secretaries to point to more secretaries. So for now, I truly believe that a local community can accept a gay couple with their kids with full rights into the Bahai community (well that is unless the pesky NSA gets in the way and takes away rights). There is no law against gay unions. The most you can say is that there is a law against sodomy and even that can be interpreted to what Bahaullah meant. But IF Bahaullah actually meant anal sex. Well then, I suggest that the NSA only remove rights when they have an actual picture of anyone (male or female) engaging in anal sex. Otherwise, stay out of people's bedrooms. To deny two men who have entered a union and are raising a family the rights of being a Bahai is pure discrimination and the world should know abou it.

If I may crave everyone's indulgence, now that most or all of the back-and-forth seems to have subsided, I would like to try to pull this together into a summary, perhaps going stepwise from what we all agree to where the contention lies.

(First of all, many societies have taboos about different forms of sexual expression, and those of us raised in any culture anywhere are imbued with all of that.)

This means that, when Bahá’u’lláh says “boys” we need scholars’ help, and we find that the connotation is pederasty. By the mutatis mutandis principle, this must mean all sexual abuse of minors, both girls and boys. I suspect we all agree so far. There are people who advocate free love with children, but I think most of us feel this is traumatizing for little people.

Now, when Shoghi Effendi says that this really extends to forbid all same-sex relations, this is where we branch off. I think most of us recognize that Shoghi Effendi was a genius who worked himself into an early grave for us, producing such brilliant writings, plans and gardens. So, we would like to find some “wiggle room” in the fact that so many of his zillions of letters were read and signed by him, but composed by someone else, a secretary / assistant (often Rúhíyyih-Khánum, to whom we also owe so much). However, for example, the letter in Lights of Guidance that uses the phrase “against Nature” is apparently written by the Guardian himself.

And it was one of the Guardian’s functions to interpret like that – but about all subjects, binding forever?

So, here we have to decide whether we agree. This creates a deep conflict for me, because I think it is hard for me to think of anything else that Shoghi Effendi interpreted that I don’t go along with (except perhaps the penchant for sexist language, which is also a phenomenon of changing social realities).

On the other hand, Shoghi Effendi clearly pointed out that scientific issues (including economics, medicine, etc.) would have to be straightened out scientifically.

And Science already sees these issues extremely differently than 80 to 100 years ago. (For example, “against Nature” sounds embarrassingly unscientific now…)

Next step: the House of Justice puts in its opinions, holding firmly to the above “party line”. This does not create such a crisis for me as Shoghi Effendi’s interpretation, because the House of Justice has demonstrated that its infallibility must itself be interpreted.

‘Abdu’l-Bahá refers to the House as the “source of all good, freed of all error” but we have seen them do what Bahá’u’lláh said they would: decide one thing, and then decide otherwise. One small – hopefully not contentious – example: there have been numerous adjustments in “the institute process” (what clusters do what, which ones do intensive growth campaigns, etc.) as it has developed. If these admittedly minor changes were 100 years apart, we would say that society changed and the House changed its rules accordingly. Since they have been months apart, I think it means that we have to understand its infallibility as (1) the Master’s hyperbole (not the only such instance of His generously lofty over-statement) and (2) by no means absolute.

(As an aside, I think the House’s infallibility can be summarized as the fact that we have to abide by whatever they decide, so for all practical purposes they are right – even when they shift gears over and over – or refuse to budge when they seem to be wrong!)

So, the House of Justice could come around, at some point in the future, to being among the last religious authorities in the world to open up and become tolerant toward the X% of the human race who have different personal preferences.

I don’t know how they will get around the Guardian’s express pronouncement, though. Speculating, when a vast majority of the world and the Bahá’í community have become freed of practically all our obsolete excuses to discriminate against others, this could result in even a House of Justice ruling that the Guardian’s pronouncements regarding scientific issues may be treated as opinion rather than binding interpretation.

For instance, the original electrical wiring at the World Center was installed according to Shoghi Effendi's instructions. However, no one would say that it is heretical (or unfaithful to the Covenant!) to upgrade the wiring!

Anyway, as more and more people come to appreciate the undeniable beauties of Bahá’u’lláh’s Revelation, I expect this to evolve into a situation in which each Bahá’í community has lots of friends, many of whom are involved with different activities, but only some of whom are “officially” Bahá’ís.

(This is now the case already, for example, if a teenager in a Bahá’í family has not felt like declaring as a Bahá’í but still comes along with the family to Feasts, or for other family members – parents, who already have “the station of a believer” – and other friends.)

I expect that, as society becomes more tolerant, even we backward Bahá’ís will learn to follow along and grow up.

And, looking further into the future, as the world becomes civilized, many things will change. For example, perhaps the promiscuity associated with both heterosexual and homosexual relations will decline. As repression vanishes, and as every family is finally a loving place, we will learn a lot about how people really are, when allowed to be.

But unless change accelerates, we early 21st-century Bahá’ís will be cheering these advances on from beyond the pale!

Thanks for the summary Amado.

If I may add a new observation. Recently I've noticed a trend that I didn't before (or perhaps it was there but I didn't pay attention to it). Whenever I or those that I'm with teach a seeker, they invariably do two things: 1. ask about the 'official' stance on homosexuality. and 2. become repelled when they are told the 'official' Baha'i line of non-acceptance of homosexuality (that is, the act or marriage isn't acceptable but the person isn't condemned).

As society continues to evolve and move beyond this issue (it has almost become as accepted as the racial issue) then the Baha'i Faith is presented with a rather thorny challenge. Those that are now joining without discovering this issue will face a serious test of Faith. And those that do ask and discover it, will reject the message and not join. At least that has been my personal experience with seekers.