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	<title>Comments on: The Song Remains the Same</title>
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	<link>http://bahairants.com/the-song-remains-the-same-49.html</link>
	<description>A Baha'i blog.</description>
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		<title>By: Is Your Baha&#8217;i Community Growing? &#124; Baha'i Rants</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/the-song-remains-the-same-49.html/comment-page-1#comment-83740</link>
		<dc:creator>Is Your Baha&#8217;i Community Growing? &#124; Baha'i Rants</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2012 00:39:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bahairants.com/?p=49#comment-83740</guid>
		<description>[...] and coordinated various events and programs. But with the advent of new ideas originating from FUNDAEC that role has been supplemented with a whole host of other activities: study circles, Ruhi courses, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and coordinated various events and programs. But with the advent of new ideas originating from FUNDAEC that role has been supplemented with a whole host of other activities: study circles, Ruhi courses, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: How to Get Elected to Baha&#8217;i Institutions &#124; Baha'i Rants</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/the-song-remains-the-same-49.html/comment-page-1#comment-82330</link>
		<dc:creator>How to Get Elected to Baha&#8217;i Institutions &#124; Baha'i Rants</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Dec 2010 20:07:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bahairants.com/?p=49#comment-82330</guid>
		<description>[...] of the International Teaching Center. And say it with confidence. In other words, channel Paul Lample.   //          Unpaid [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of the International Teaching Center. And say it with confidence. In other words, channel Paul Lample.   //          Unpaid [...]</p>
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		<title>By: fubar</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/the-song-remains-the-same-49.html/comment-page-1#comment-82036</link>
		<dc:creator>fubar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Sep 2010 15:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bahairants.com/?p=49#comment-82036</guid>
		<description>re: What is wrong with bahai is far deeper than growth patterns, and has existed for far longer than Ruhi.

I saw two promising &quot;mass teaching&quot; projects fail, one in the 80s, one in the 90s. I was involved on the periphery of the biggest bahai mass conversion project in USA, South Carolina in the 70s, and knew a controversial bahai leader that was directly involved.

The failures follow a predictable pattern caused by dysfunctional bahai culture, dysfunctional psychological archetypes, and dysfunctional bahai administration.

SED/Ruhi were attempts to reverse that, but did not work because the &quot;solution&quot; lacked depth, truth and authenticity, and could not match the problem.

Core bahai beliefs are simply not good enough to solve real problems of human behavior and organization.

I also saw one attempt to organize a completely bottom-up grass roots mysticism movement destroyed by bahai administration, and knew people involved in a similar, independent grass roots movement involving some of the ideas in the human potential movement (transformative practice) in the 80s snuffed out by bahai leadership elites who felt threatened by the competition.

What is wrong with bahai is far deeper than growth patterns, and has existed for far longer than Ruhi.

Ruhi does little to address the deep problems, and thus will also ultimately fail.

(ex-bahai, 30+ years)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: What is wrong with bahai is far deeper than growth patterns, and has existed for far longer than Ruhi.</p>
<p>I saw two promising &#8220;mass teaching&#8221; projects fail, one in the 80s, one in the 90s. I was involved on the periphery of the biggest bahai mass conversion project in USA, South Carolina in the 70s, and knew a controversial bahai leader that was directly involved.</p>
<p>The failures follow a predictable pattern caused by dysfunctional bahai culture, dysfunctional psychological archetypes, and dysfunctional bahai administration.</p>
<p>SED/Ruhi were attempts to reverse that, but did not work because the &#8220;solution&#8221; lacked depth, truth and authenticity, and could not match the problem.</p>
<p>Core bahai beliefs are simply not good enough to solve real problems of human behavior and organization.</p>
<p>I also saw one attempt to organize a completely bottom-up grass roots mysticism movement destroyed by bahai administration, and knew people involved in a similar, independent grass roots movement involving some of the ideas in the human potential movement (transformative practice) in the 80s snuffed out by bahai leadership elites who felt threatened by the competition.</p>
<p>What is wrong with bahai is far deeper than growth patterns, and has existed for far longer than Ruhi.</p>
<p>Ruhi does little to address the deep problems, and thus will also ultimately fail.</p>
<p>(ex-bahai, 30+ years)</p>
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		<title>By: Farnoush azami bonabi</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/the-song-remains-the-same-49.html/comment-page-1#comment-82021</link>
		<dc:creator>Farnoush azami bonabi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Sep 2010 16:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bahairants.com/?p=49#comment-82021</guid>
		<description>It has been the same or worse but surely not better through the centuries Now you see worldwide afflictions:poverty,wars,diseases,crimes, drug addiction,corrupyion,illeteracy ignorance,racism,sexism....What can 
both systems or individuals do?Everybody can do only a little bit for the betterment of the life. If you change the systems as you wish nothing will change faster than now.It will take time. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It has been the same or worse but surely not better through the centuries Now you see worldwide afflictions:poverty,wars,diseases,crimes, drug addiction,corrupyion,illeteracy ignorance,racism,sexism&#8230;.What can<br />
both systems or individuals do?Everybody can do only a little bit for the betterment of the life. If you change the systems as you wish nothing will change faster than now.It will take time. </p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/the-song-remains-the-same-49.html/comment-page-1#comment-82017</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Sep 2010 02:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bahairants.com/?p=49#comment-82017</guid>
		<description>All very true! And because of this common state of &quot;lock step group think&quot; look where BOTH systems now sit on the edge of the abyss completely out of true insight regarding their situations. &quot;I cried because I had no shoes, and then I saw a man who had no soul.&quot; It is all completely tragic beyond words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All very true! And because of this common state of &#8220;lock step group think&#8221; look where BOTH systems now sit on the edge of the abyss completely out of true insight regarding their situations. &#8220;I cried because I had no shoes, and then I saw a man who had no soul.&#8221; It is all completely tragic beyond words.</p>
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		<title>By: Farnoush azami bonabi</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/the-song-remains-the-same-49.html/comment-page-1#comment-82016</link>
		<dc:creator>Farnoush azami bonabi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Sep 2010 01:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bahairants.com/?p=49#comment-82016</guid>
		<description>After the election of first UJH in 1963 which has been remaining almost the same for 20 years the house began to bring in,already known and tested personalities to avoid discord on the tope which could be very dangerous. Every president in the USA or prime minister in UK has the right to bring in his cabinet  only his like-minded friends to work in unity and preace.Farnoush Azami Bonabi Ghol  kollon min  endallah. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After the election of first UJH in 1963 which has been remaining almost the same for 20 years the house began to bring in,already known and tested personalities to avoid discord on the tope which could be very dangerous. Every president in the USA or prime minister in UK has the right to bring in his cabinet  only his like-minded friends to work in unity and preace.Farnoush Azami Bonabi Ghol  kollon min  endallah. </p>
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		<title>By: fubar</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/the-song-remains-the-same-49.html/comment-page-1#comment-69645</link>
		<dc:creator>fubar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 08:27:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bahairants.com/?p=49#comment-69645</guid>
		<description>Also almost forgot to mention:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;at one of the Bosch talisman mysticism conferences (late 1990s?) where Terry Culhane talked about the divine feminine, there was also a group of SED practitioners holding meetings about the early implementation of Ruhi. I overheard a conversation between some people that had been very involved in SED work that was &quot;parasitized&quot; to form part of the basis of Ruhi. they were going on and on and on about how the BWC wasn&#039;t &quot;really&quot; limiting what kinds of &quot;community building&quot; were &quot;allowed&quot;, Ruhi was just the &quot;preferred&quot; path out of various &quot;diverse&quot; possibilities. These people were obviously the working visionaries doing the dirty work, whose real accomplishments were never recognized by the inept bureaucrats that took all the credit.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The SED practitioners seemed to be resigned to the fact that bahai administration,like all dysfunctional bureaucracies, rarely &quot;does the right thing&quot;, rather, it operates out of a broken incentive system that primarily serves to perpetuate the bureaucracy, rather than actually accomplish the lofty goals used to &quot;sucker in&quot; converts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also almost forgot to mention:</p>
<p>at one of the Bosch talisman mysticism conferences (late 1990s?) where Terry Culhane talked about the divine feminine, there was also a group of SED practitioners holding meetings about the early implementation of Ruhi. I overheard a conversation between some people that had been very involved in SED work that was &#8220;parasitized&#8221; to form part of the basis of Ruhi. they were going on and on and on about how the BWC wasn&#39;t &#8220;really&#8221; limiting what kinds of &#8220;community building&#8221; were &#8220;allowed&#8221;, Ruhi was just the &#8220;preferred&#8221; path out of various &#8220;diverse&#8221; possibilities. These people were obviously the working visionaries doing the dirty work, whose real accomplishments were never recognized by the inept bureaucrats that took all the credit.</p>
<p>The SED practitioners seemed to be resigned to the fact that bahai administration,like all dysfunctional bureaucracies, rarely &#8220;does the right thing&#8221;, rather, it operates out of a broken incentive system that primarily serves to perpetuate the bureaucracy, rather than actually accomplish the lofty goals used to &#8220;sucker in&#8221; converts.</p>
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		<title>By: fubar</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/the-song-remains-the-same-49.html/comment-page-1#comment-69644</link>
		<dc:creator>fubar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 08:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bahairants.com/?p=49#comment-69644</guid>
		<description>Dan,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I can&#039;t confirm it on a factual basis, but there is a long pattern of bureaucratic reinvention in bahai administration that strongly predicts it.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What that means is that one unreasonable top-down plan is born, is hyped, eventually is noticed to have accomplishes little, is &quot;deemphasized&quot; (along with huge lies/distortions about the extent of accomplishments), then another plan is announced, and the cycle continues.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There is little or no &quot;real&quot; accountability, or soul-searching, as to why the bureaucrats accomplish little or nothing with their plans (or other forms of top-down groupthink).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Jurgen Habermas (postmodern philosopher) refers to this as &quot;colonization of lifeworld by systems&quot;. Bureaucracy = systems.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Colonization of course is not &quot;spiritual&quot; in the usual sense because it violates ethical frameworks in the modern world that prohibit exclusion, oppression, enslavement, etc. (where such prohibition  enacts enlightenment, compassion and altruism at a new &quot;level&quot; of social evolution).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Ultimately the pattern of bureaucratic lies deepens and turns to disillusion, and then the people that dare to state the truth are attacked for being &quot;non-conformists&quot;, or &quot;dissidents&quot;, or &quot;critics&quot;. (they become scapegoats in a &quot;shadow dance&quot; of psychological projection/transference.)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Eventually the whole mess becomes deeply dehumanizing, which of course doesn&#039;t phase the true bureaucrat-to-the-bitter-end (who most likely has sociopathic tendencies) in the least.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The need to &quot;convert&quot; people plays a specific role by perpetuating the myth that something is being accomplished (transformation).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There is a vast absence of &quot;authenticity&quot; to the phenomena, it is psychologically and spiritually &quot;empty&quot; (devoid of the usual, natural human tenency to self-organize in small groups to create &quot;meaning&quot;).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As  Bernie Neville (Latrobe Univ.) says, Hermes was both the god of transformation, and the god of lies and deception.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Its ironic that the greek &quot;pagan&quot; philosophers 3,000 years ago could so clearly see things about human nature that &quot;infallible&quot; bahai bureaucrats can not see now.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;adios muchacho!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan,</p>
<p>I can&#39;t confirm it on a factual basis, but there is a long pattern of bureaucratic reinvention in bahai administration that strongly predicts it.</p>
<p>What that means is that one unreasonable top-down plan is born, is hyped, eventually is noticed to have accomplishes little, is &#8220;deemphasized&#8221; (along with huge lies/distortions about the extent of accomplishments), then another plan is announced, and the cycle continues.</p>
<p>There is little or no &#8220;real&#8221; accountability, or soul-searching, as to why the bureaucrats accomplish little or nothing with their plans (or other forms of top-down groupthink).</p>
<p>Jurgen Habermas (postmodern philosopher) refers to this as &#8220;colonization of lifeworld by systems&#8221;. Bureaucracy = systems.</p>
<p>Colonization of course is not &#8220;spiritual&#8221; in the usual sense because it violates ethical frameworks in the modern world that prohibit exclusion, oppression, enslavement, etc. (where such prohibition  enacts enlightenment, compassion and altruism at a new &#8220;level&#8221; of social evolution).</p>
<p>Ultimately the pattern of bureaucratic lies deepens and turns to disillusion, and then the people that dare to state the truth are attacked for being &#8220;non-conformists&#8221;, or &#8220;dissidents&#8221;, or &#8220;critics&#8221;. (they become scapegoats in a &#8220;shadow dance&#8221; of psychological projection/transference.)</p>
<p>Eventually the whole mess becomes deeply dehumanizing, which of course doesn&#39;t phase the true bureaucrat-to-the-bitter-end (who most likely has sociopathic tendencies) in the least.</p>
<p>The need to &#8220;convert&#8221; people plays a specific role by perpetuating the myth that something is being accomplished (transformation).</p>
<p>There is a vast absence of &#8220;authenticity&#8221; to the phenomena, it is psychologically and spiritually &#8220;empty&#8221; (devoid of the usual, natural human tenency to self-organize in small groups to create &#8220;meaning&#8221;).</p>
<p>As  Bernie Neville (Latrobe Univ.) says, Hermes was both the god of transformation, and the god of lies and deception.</p>
<p>Its ironic that the greek &#8220;pagan&#8221; philosophers 3,000 years ago could so clearly see things about human nature that &#8220;infallible&#8221; bahai bureaucrats can not see now.</p>
<p>adios muchacho!</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Jensen</title>
		<link>http://bahairants.com/the-song-remains-the-same-49.html/comment-page-1#comment-69637</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Jensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 00:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bahairants.com/?p=49#comment-69637</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve just heard a rumor that His Eminence Mr. Lample has been de-emphasizing Ruhi of late, suggesting that it was a good learning experience, but that it&#039;s time to move on to a new approach. Can anyone confirm this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;ve just heard a rumor that His Eminence Mr. Lample has been de-emphasizing Ruhi of late, suggesting that it was a good learning experience, but that it&#39;s time to move on to a new approach. Can anyone confirm this?</p>
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