One has no authority to tell another what they should think. It is so much up to the individual to *search* for an understanding. Flawed as we are, we are only too fallible. That is why a search is important, not a conquest to push your ideas, but a conquest to understand and respect.

Well said, Wullin, I fully agree

One has no authority to tell another what they should think. It is so much up to the individual to *search* for an understanding. Flawed as we are, we are only too fallible. That is why a search is important, not a conquest to push your ideas, but a conquest to understand and respect.

Well said, Wullin, I fully agree

with so many problems in the world, why create more. With evil doers never resting, how can one, interested in the welfare of the world ever stop to contribute to the negative forces wrecking this world?

It does not matter so much what religion, what thought of belief, as much as the underlying intent matters. To work for the betterment of the world, for peace unity, that is what’s important.

One has no authority to tell another what they should think. It is so much up to the individual to *search* for an understanding. Flawed as we are, we are only too fallible. That is why a search is important, not a conquest to push your ideas, but a conquest to understand and respect.

with so many problems in the world, why create more. With evil doers never resting, how can one, interested in the welfare of the world ever stop to contribute to the negative forces wrecking this world?

It does not matter so much what religion, what thought of belief, as much as the underlying intent matters. To work for the betterment of the world, for peace unity, that is what’s important.

One has no authority to tell another what they should think. It is so much up to the individual to *search* for an understanding. Flawed as we are, we are only too fallible. That is why a search is important, not a conquest to push your ideas, but a conquest to understand and respect.

well I guess you haven’t been around Persian Bahais much have you? As an Iranian Bahai, who happens to be gay, I know how easily someone in my situation could be ostrasized by family and others. I just chose to keep myself inactive from the Bahai community instead of dealing with their scourge. But I still have my insistant Persian Bahai mother trying to force me back into activities. Oh yeah, sure no pressures in the Bahai community, pleeeze; you must have your head stuck in the sand Carmen.

well I guess you haven’t been around Persian Bahais much have you? As an Iranian Bahai, who happens to be gay, I know how easily someone in my situation could be ostrasized by family and others. I just chose to keep myself inactive from the Bahai community instead of dealing with their scourge. But I still have my insistant Persian Bahai mother trying to force me back into activities. Oh yeah, sure no pressures in the Bahai community, pleeeze; you must have your head stuck in the sand Carmen.

Sorry, CoL for the muddle; yes, I admit that your quote can lead some Baha’is to disdain for non-Baha’is, atheists and ex-Baha’is, and Baha’is not sharing their views. I actually remember some rare bigotted Baha’is attached to such concepts.

There is the spirit of the faith and the words that apply to specific situations; the injunctions to love and forebearance are abundant in all religions, but some hang on to the few passages that are an alibi for their unmitigated hatred. The Grand Inquisitor passage in Karamazov brothers is a perfect study of bigotry.

As far as I am concerned, when I look at my origins, I have absolutely no doubt that without the Baha’i Faith I would be a far worst and more intolerant person than I am now. I have no doubt that for me that Baha’i Faith has been a source progress, but I am sure that many have passed far beyond my condition through other sources.

I remember a tablet of Abdu’l-baha praising the non-Baha’i Westa and musing on the effects of Baha’u'llah’s revelation had it first appeared in the West.

My point goes beyond personnal virtues: my belief is that there is no other force capable of harmonising the contending cultures and nations such as backward bigots amongst which I was born and open minded atheists, other than the Baha’i Faith. I do not believe that passivity or violent confrontation are the keys to harmony.

Sorry, CoL for the muddle; yes, I admit that your quote can lead some Baha’is to disdain for non-Baha’is, atheists and ex-Baha’is, and Baha’is not sharing their views. I actually remember some rare bigotted Baha’is attached to such concepts.

There is the spirit of the faith and the words that apply to specific situations; the injunctions to love and forebearance are abundant in all religions, but some hang on to the few passages that are an alibi for their unmitigated hatred. The Grand Inquisitor passage in Karamazov brothers is a perfect study of bigotry.

As far as I am concerned, when I look at my origins, I have absolutely no doubt that without the Baha’i Faith I would be a far worst and more intolerant person than I am now. I have no doubt that for me that Baha’i Faith has been a source progress, but I am sure that many have passed far beyond my condition through other sources.

I remember a tablet of Abdu’l-baha praising the non-Baha’i Westa and musing on the effects of Baha’u'llah’s revelation had it first appeared in the West.

My point goes beyond personnal virtues: my belief is that there is no other force capable of harmonising the contending cultures and nations such as backward bigots amongst which I was born and open minded atheists, other than the Baha’i Faith. I do not believe that passivity or violent confrontation are the keys to harmony.

You’ve misattributed my remark to Andrew.

I wouldn’t conflate Baha’u’llah’s use of the Evil One with the ungodly inasmuch as the former, popularly understood, refers to the baser dimension of human nature.
Baha’u’llah is quite clear and unequivocal about his attitude towards atheists, as illustrated by the following passage:

Know thou for a certainty that whoso disbelieveth in God is neither trustworthy nor truthful. This, indeed, is the truth, the undoubted truth. He that acteth treacherously towards God will, also, act treacherously towards his king. Nothing whatever can deter such a man from evil, nothing can hinder him from betraying his neighbor, nothing can induce him to walk uprightly.
(Baha’u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u'llah, p. 232)

Baha’u’llah is clearly identifying atheism with immorality.

Farhan, as a devout Bahai, will you not admit that such a passage can prejudice your view of atheists? Do you not see how this can motivate Bahai disdain for and suspicion of Bahais who exit the Faith and opt for atheism? Is it consistent for a Bahai to affirm the truth of the above passage while also engaging atheists, whether formerly Bahai or not? Do you not see how writings like this can compel Bahais to view any attempt by ex-Bahais or atheists at articulating their objections and challenges to the Faith as “hindering the rise and obstructing the spiritual progress of the children of men”?